Too expensive to get bike sorted

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Pinhead
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

MorningDew wrote: 2 Jun 2023, 11:44pm The Saracen Mantras from six years ago or so were decent mid-range hardtails. They even produced a carbon fibre one. The Mantras from fifteen years ago were cheaper affairs from Saracen's time in the doldrums. On no account would I pay £315 to get one serviced.

Most of the servicing on the list is not difficult and does not require expensive tools. However, if there's a tricky task, it will be the bottom bracket, and if the bottom bracket won't come out, there's no point in doing any of the other work. Before considering having the work done, I would see what is available locally, secondhand, for less than £315. (Search the usual places: Ebay, Gumtree, Facebook Marketplace.) It should be possible to find a hardtail from a few years ago, in good working order, for less than £315. Look for something like a GT Avalanche, Specialized RockHopper, or something by Trek or Marin. You will almost certainly be able to find a bike that's better than the Mantra for less money than repairing the Mantra. A used GT Avalanche would be my first search if I wanted a hardtail mountain bike on a tight budget.
Again THANK YOU ALL

I have printed off this post as a whole
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Pinhead
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

My three Saracens bought for my sons were £350 each from Halfords about 15 years ago
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Bonzo Banana
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Bonzo Banana »

Pinhead wrote: 3 Jun 2023, 11:50am
MorningDew wrote: 2 Jun 2023, 11:44pm The Saracen Mantras from six years ago or so were decent mid-range hardtails. They even produced a carbon fibre one. The Mantras from fifteen years ago were cheaper affairs from Saracen's time in the doldrums. On no account would I pay £315 to get one serviced.

Most of the servicing on the list is not difficult and does not require expensive tools. However, if there's a tricky task, it will be the bottom bracket, and if the bottom bracket won't come out, there's no point in doing any of the other work. Before considering having the work done, I would see what is available locally, secondhand, for less than £315. (Search the usual places: Ebay, Gumtree, Facebook Marketplace.) It should be possible to find a hardtail from a few years ago, in good working order, for less than £315. Look for something like a GT Avalanche, Specialized RockHopper, or something by Trek or Marin. You will almost certainly be able to find a bike that's better than the Mantra for less money than repairing the Mantra. A used GT Avalanche would be my first search if I wanted a hardtail mountain bike on a tight budget.
Again THANK YOU ALL

I have printed off this post as a whole
I'd disagree about the comments on Saracen. The original Saracen company used some exceptionally well made frames from Merida of Taiwan who were at the top of their game for the time. Brilliant quality frames. Saracen sort of lost their way and started selling more basic bikes alongside their normal models to get the money in but it diluted the reputation of the brand and they went out of business. There was talk that Merida would take over the brand at the time but they didn't. Later the Saracen brand was resurrected under new owners and these were typically from Insera Sena mostly who are a big OEM factory who also own the Polygon and Marin brands today. They make a lot of bike brands including many Halfords models, Carrera, Voodoo, Boardman, they have made Kona and Scott models and also many of the Go Outdoors Calibre mountain bikes. It's a good factory in Indonesia but I don't think they are as good as Merida.

However what I have to agree with its not worth putting that much money into an old Saracen when you can find lightly used s/hand mountain bikes for a fraction of that money. Years ago I was faced with a situation with a bike I bought cheap with a great frame I wanted to use but was pretty much worn out. I bought a donor bike cheap of the wrong size for me and moved all the components over to the frame and only had to buy one or two new components. I also sold on the small size frame I couldn't use. All in all I restored the bike for very little money. Perhaps £40-50.

Bike shops play safe with regard drivetrains, they like to replace everything if components are getting close to end of life even if there are a few years left in some of them like the crankset. I don't think its a scam its just they want to return the bike in perfect working order not have a long bedding in time as the new chain and worn crankset wear in to each other.
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Pinhead
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

Bonzo Banana wrote: 3 Jun 2023, 1:05pm
Pinhead wrote: 3 Jun 2023, 11:50am
MorningDew wrote: 2 Jun 2023, 11:44pm The Saracen Mantras from six years ago or so were decent mid-range hardtails. They even produced a carbon fibre one. The Mantras from fifteen years ago were cheaper affairs from Saracen's time in the doldrums. On no account would I pay £315 to get one serviced.

Most of the servicing on the list is not difficult and does not require expensive tools. However, if there's a tricky task, it will be the bottom bracket, and if the bottom bracket won't come out, there's no point in doing any of the other work. Before considering having the work done, I would see what is available locally, secondhand, for less than £315. (Search the usual places: Ebay, Gumtree, Facebook Marketplace.) It should be possible to find a hardtail from a few years ago, in good working order, for less than £315. Look for something like a GT Avalanche, Specialized RockHopper, or something by Trek or Marin. You will almost certainly be able to find a bike that's better than the Mantra for less money than repairing the Mantra. A used GT Avalanche would be my first search if I wanted a hardtail mountain bike on a tight budget.
Again THANK YOU ALL

I have printed off this post as a whole
I'd disagree about the comments on Saracen. The original Saracen company used some exceptionally well made frames from Merida of Taiwan who were at the top of their game for the time. Brilliant quality frames. Saracen sort of lost their way and started selling more basic bikes alongside their normal models to get the money in but it diluted the reputation of the brand and they went out of business. There was talk that Merida would take over the brand at the time but they didn't. Later the Saracen brand was resurrected under new owners and these were typically from Insera Sena mostly who are a big OEM factory who also own the Polygon and Marin brands today. They make a lot of bike brands including many Halfords models, Carrera, Voodoo, Boardman, they have made Kona and Scott models and also many of the Go Outdoors Calibre mountain bikes. It's a good factory in Indonesia but I don't think they are as good as Merida.

However what I have to agree with its not worth putting that much money into an old Saracen when you can find lightly used s/hand mountain bikes for a fraction of that money. Years ago I was faced with a situation with a bike I bought cheap with a great frame I wanted to use but was pretty much worn out. I bought a donor bike cheap of the wrong size for me and moved all the components over to the frame and only had to buy one or two new components. I also sold on the small size frame I couldn't use. All in all I restored the bike for very little money. Perhaps £40-50.

Bike shops play safe with regard drivetrains, they like to replace everything if components are getting close to end of life even if there are a few years left in some of them like the crankset. I don't think its a scam its just they want to return the bike in perfect working order not have a long bedding in time as the new chain and worn crankset wear in to each other.
That is why we bought the Saracens when not knowing a lot, they were stated as being a long established well known brand.
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Manc33
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Manc33 »

The only thing I can see in that list where you'd save a lot is on the cables.

You have cables listed at £40 but then have a separate labour charge as well?

Are they really charging £40 for four cables? They are £1 each on eBay if you know where to look, usually if bought in a pair.

At least, they used to be a few years back, it's 2023 now. :roll: Prices can't have gone up that much though. Maybe they are £2 each by now.

The rest of it... with prices going up, I can't see much difference if buying the part and doing it yourself.

Long gone are the days (pre-2020) of getting rotors for £7.99 and so on. I remember getting a pair of BB7 calipers with rotors back around 2018 for under £40 (albeit from Hong Kong, but as far as I can tell they are real). Today (at least at Tredz) they are over £160 for the same thing. :shock:
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Steve
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Joined: 2 Apr 2007, 1:42pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Steve »

I see there's a charity called Wheel Together in Aberystwyth, why not get in touch with them and see if there's someone there who could help out in some way?
MorningDew
Posts: 25
Joined: 7 Apr 2020, 11:57pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by MorningDew »

Bonzo Banana wrote: 3 Jun 2023, 1:05pm
Pinhead wrote: 3 Jun 2023, 11:50am
MorningDew wrote: 2 Jun 2023, 11:44pm The Saracen Mantras from six years ago or so were decent mid-range hardtails. They even produced a carbon fibre one. The Mantras from fifteen years ago were cheaper affairs from Saracen's time in the doldrums. On no account would I pay £315 to get one serviced.

Most of the servicing on the list is not difficult and does not require expensive tools. However, if there's a tricky task, it will be the bottom bracket, and if the bottom bracket won't come out, there's no point in doing any of the other work. Before considering having the work done, I would see what is available locally, secondhand, for less than £315. (Search the usual places: Ebay, Gumtree, Facebook Marketplace.) It should be possible to find a hardtail from a few years ago, in good working order, for less than £315. Look for something like a GT Avalanche, Specialized RockHopper, or something by Trek or Marin. You will almost certainly be able to find a bike that's better than the Mantra for less money than repairing the Mantra. A used GT Avalanche would be my first search if I wanted a hardtail mountain bike on a tight budget.
Again THANK YOU ALL

I have printed off this post as a whole
I'd disagree about the comments on Saracen. The original Saracen company used some exceptionally well made frames from Merida of Taiwan who were at the top of their game for the time. Brilliant quality frames. Saracen sort of lost their way and started selling more basic bikes alongside their normal models to get the money in but it diluted the reputation of the brand and they went out of business. There was talk that Merida would take over the brand at the time but they didn't. Later the Saracen brand was resurrected under new owners and these were typically from Insera Sena mostly who are a big OEM factory who also own the Polygon and Marin brands today. They make a lot of bike brands including many Halfords models, Carrera, Voodoo, Boardman, they have made Kona and Scott models and also many of the Go Outdoors Calibre mountain bikes. It's a good factory in Indonesia but I don't think they are as good as Merida.

However what I have to agree with its not worth putting that much money into an old Saracen when you can find lightly used s/hand mountain bikes for a fraction of that money. Years ago I was faced with a situation with a bike I bought cheap with a great frame I wanted to use but was pretty much worn out. I bought a donor bike cheap of the wrong size for me and moved all the components over to the frame and only had to buy one or two new components. I also sold on the small size frame I couldn't use. All in all I restored the bike for very little money. Perhaps £40-50.

Bike shops play safe with regard drivetrains, they like to replace everything if components are getting close to end of life even if there are a few years left in some of them like the crankset. I don't think its a scam its just they want to return the bike in perfect working order not have a long bedding in time as the new chain and worn crankset wear in to each other.
I don't think there's any disagreement: I would agree that Saracen made some great bikes in the eighties and nineties before they lost their way.
cycle tramp
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by cycle tramp »

...what may be worth considering is to change the transmission to an eight speed rather than a 3x8... admittedly you'd reducing the range of your gearing and losing the highest range and the lower range....(However if your using bike paths you may not have even used/needed them)..however rather than replacing the whole chainset, you'd be simply replacing a chainring (which would reduce the chainset bill by some 30 to 50 pounds) and saving you 10 on the fourth cable...
The front derailleur would stay in place and act as a chain guide.
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gregoryoftours
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Joined: 22 May 2011, 7:14pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by gregoryoftours »

Manc33 wrote: 3 Jun 2023, 5:35pm The only thing I can see in that list where you'd save a lot is on the cables.

You have cables listed at £40 but then have a separate labour charge as well?

Are they really charging £40 for four cables? They are £1 each on eBay if you know where to look, usually if bought in a pair.

At least, they used to be a few years back, it's 2023 now. :roll: Prices can't have gone up that much though. Maybe they are £2 each by now.

The rest of it... with prices going up, I can't see much difference if buying the part and doing it yourself.

Long gone are the days (pre-2020) of getting rotors for £7.99 and so on. I remember getting a pair of BB7 calipers with rotors back around 2018 for under £40 (albeit from Hong Kong, but as far as I can tell they are real). Today (at least at Tredz) they are over £160 for the same thing. :shock:
You can do a bit better than £40 for 4 sets of decent quality inner, housing and all end caps, but not £8 or anywhere near these days, and cables are one of the things not worth cheaping out on. You want at least stainless not galvanized.

I agree on the other parts too, it's not an unreasonable quote, plus the bike shop will not make beginners mistakes in terms of ordering all of the correct compatible parts. (This forum can help with that).

There are quite a few bike specific tools needed if not owned already, off the top of my head; cable cutters, crank puller, the correct BB tool/s plus a large enough spanner to use it, cassette lockring tool, chain whip, pedal spanner, chain splitting tool, plus all of the general tools. Of course they are a good investment if you're in it for the long term but if money is short then the initial investment is high, especially when added to the cost of the parts needed to fix the bike. Learning yourself also involves mistakes which can add to the cost.

I do think that the best bet for the OP is to find a community bike project as has been suggested where he can use the tools, (this will also require a fair investment in time). Some projects basically allow you to pay to use the tools/workshop space for a low price. They may not all have funding to be able to provide the wages for a mechanic to teach people how to fully service their bikes, so may only be able to provide minimal personal attention. It's certainly worth finding out what is available.

Another good option is to buy a used bike in good condition, Ideally one of those bikes that has been bought but never used, as many people don't have an idea of all the problems/worn parts on their used bikes they're selling.
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Pinhead
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

Steve wrote: 3 Jun 2023, 6:15pm I see there's a charity called Wheel Together in Aberystwyth, why not get in touch with them and see if there's someone there who could help out in some way?
THANK YOU

I did see them at the bike shop when we stopped for a burger but didn't want/like to ask, THANKS for the details, emailed them
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axel_knutt
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by axel_knutt »

markjohnobrien wrote: 2 Jun 2023, 5:51pm Well done, that’s fantastic information.
There was a guy at work who occasionally mentioned that he never had any bother getting his MoTs done by the council, but I never gave it much thought until I quit work. Money was less plentiful then, so I thought I'd give it a try, and I never had another failure: seven consecutive passes on a car that ended up 18 years old with 180,000 miles on the clock by the time I quit driving. I used to watch them do it too, on one occasion he called me down into the pit and showed me some rust on the chassis: "This is OK at the moment, but if it gets as far as here I'll have to fail it", which is more helpful than your average garage.
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Pinhead
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

SERIOUSLY.

Just received this from "Wheel together" Aberystwyth when I asked about joining.

I suppose they need to take precautions but a cycling test at my age, I suppose it will be blood and urine samples next :) :) :)

Hi again Jeremy,
I need to arrange for you to have a 1:1 assessment with one of our Ride Leaders - this is free as is your first ride with us. The assessment is to make sure you are riding the most suitable bike for you

Hi Jeremy,
Although you are an experienced cyclist, we do need to complete the paperwork for you. Will you be using your own bike?


Errr yes (perhaps I should take a uni-cycle ! HTH will they know what "I find suitable", I suppose they have to cover all bases

P1050175 (2019_06_14 13_02_52 UTC).jpg
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Psamathe
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Psamathe »

Pinhead wrote: 4 Jun 2023, 8:38pm SERIOUSLY.

Just received this from "Wheel together" Aberystwyth when I asked about joining.

I suppose they need to take precautions but a cycling test at my age, I suppose it will be blood and urine samples next :) :) :)

Hi again Jeremy,
I need to arrange for you to have a 1:1 assessment with one of our Ride Leaders - this is free as is your first ride with us. The assessment is to make sure you are riding the most suitable bike for you

Hi Jeremy,
Although you are an experienced cyclist, we do need to complete the paperwork for you. Will you be using your own bike?


Errr yes (perhaps I should take a uni-cycle ! HTH will they know what "I find suitable", I suppose they have to cover all bases


P1050175 (2019_06_14 13_02_52 UTC).jpg
I'm sure that on occasions they have people arrive with totally unsuitable bikes (which could include totally the wrong size bikes or bikes with bits not working ... like brakes). I'd expect them to have liability insurance and that would probably mean they have to check all is safe and suitable first.

They probably have different "levels" (maybe different distances and/or ascent and/or speeds and/or traffic levels. People in the wrong group will quickly give-up (if you can manage 10 miles at 8 mph and get in a 50 miles at 14 mph group would you enjoy the ride?).

So to me does not sound unreasonable.

Ian
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Pinhead
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

Psamathe wrote: 4 Jun 2023, 9:58pm
Pinhead wrote: 4 Jun 2023, 8:38pm SERIOUSLY.

Just received this from "Wheel together" Aberystwyth when I asked about joining.

I suppose they need to take precautions but a cycling test at my age, I suppose it will be blood and urine samples next :) :) :)

Hi again Jeremy,
I need to arrange for you to have a 1:1 assessment with one of our Ride Leaders - this is free as is your first ride with us. The assessment is to make sure you are riding the most suitable bike for you

Hi Jeremy,
Although you are an experienced cyclist, we do need to complete the paperwork for you. Will you be using your own bike?


Errr yes (perhaps I should take a uni-cycle ! HTH will they know what "I find suitable", I suppose they have to cover all bases


P1050175 (2019_06_14 13_02_52 UTC).jpg
I'm sure that on occasions they have people arrive with totally unsuitable bikes (which could include totally the wrong size bikes or bikes with bits not working ... like brakes). I'd expect them to have liability insurance and that would probably mean they have to check all is safe and suitable first.

They probably have different "levels" (maybe different distances and/or ascent and/or speeds and/or traffic levels. People in the wrong group will quickly give-up (if you can manage 10 miles at 8 mph and get in a 50 miles at 14 mph group would you enjoy the ride?).

So to me does not sound unreasonable.

Ian
As you explain it, it is more undsretsndable
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