Sturmey 4 set up Woes

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Barrowman
Posts: 441
Joined: 8 Jan 2022, 6:35pm

Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by Barrowman »

Been struggling with a 4 speed Sturmey for some time now.
Hub is new old stock, can get it working in 3 but not 4 .
Thought it was a trigger issue but having given it a good dose of looking at think I know where the lever should be for each 'click' . But can only get it to engage in 3 gears.
Welcome any suggestions (apart from bin) it's part of a running restoration of a 40's machine with Road / path ends and my knees can't take Fixed any more :cry: It will only be ridden occasionally.
I am close to Stourbridge if there's anyone in my neck of the woods.
robc02
Posts: 1824
Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 7:12pm
Location: Stafford

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by robc02 »

Is it first or fourth gear that you can't get?

When engaging first you should feel quite strong resistance from an additional extra spring (it only comes into play when going from second to first).

Have you got the correct indicator rod? It is in two parts that screw together from either side of the hub. If not properly tightened it can lead to gear selection problems. Be careful when tightening, the thread is very fine and easily damaged. I had one that wouldn't screw together fully and I had to carefully clean the threads with solvent and a wire brush to clear them out.

The correct two part rod can be difficult to find, and I gather that some hubs may have been converted to take a three speed rod (it requires a different axle key as well).

I assume yours is an FW? If so, this diagram might be helpful:

https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/safw.pdf
jimlews
Posts: 1476
Joined: 11 Jun 2015, 8:36pm
Location: Not the end of the world.

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by jimlews »

Are you using a four speed changer?
Is it a three speed in the can. An AW will fit in an FW shell.(as will an AM, which has a left hand indicator, but not an FM or FC shell).
So until you have got in amongst the sun and planets, you shouldn't assume that it is what it says on the can.
Assuming you have a 4 speed in there;
It is possible to use a three speed trigger (or a top tube quadrant changer), but you only get the three higher gears unless you run bare wire along the top tube and arrange some sort of a hook or peg that you can lift the gear cable onto to select first gear.

If you are using a four speed trigger, be aware that first gear selection always was 'tricky'
and unless the trigger is brand new they tended to slip out of first unless held in gear.

Hope this is of use and good luck.

Sage advice above.
Last edited by jimlews on 31 May 2023, 8:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
robc02
Posts: 1824
Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 7:12pm
Location: Stafford

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by robc02 »

......and unless the trigger is brand new they tended to slip out of first unless held in gear.
I dealt with this by epoxying a piece of steel so that it moves the spring to one side so that it presses directly above the ratchet teeth. It has been a big improvement:

ImageSA 4 Speed Lever Mod by SturmeyRob, on Flickr
rjb
Posts: 7199
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by rjb »

The 4 speed hub has a hollow axle with an indicator rod in 2 Half's which screw into each other from both sides. You can push the left hand rod with a screwdriver to engage the lowest gear. It's in gear 2 when the end of the indicator is flush with the left end of the axle.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/adj.html
Scroll down to left side adjustment. :wink:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
Barrowman
Posts: 441
Joined: 8 Jan 2022, 6:35pm

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by Barrowman »

Interesting responses, thanks, this is only my second Sturmey 'experience' ,the first being a Claud Butler Tandem with a solo Sturmey 3 speed that wouldn't stay in the forks, discovered the axle was too narrow on that.
Have indicator rod on the left so looks like it is a 4 . Lever is well used and have to say I was surprised how much heft had to be used (once I had realised where the lever was supposed to be in each gear ) .
I 'll update when I have had another fiddle.
rogerzilla
Posts: 2887
Joined: 9 Jun 2008, 8:06pm

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by rogerzilla »

You can open up the trigger and sharpen up the pawl plate with a grinder but it's not easy. Best option is to find a better trigger. Apparently a current 4 speed SA (Taiwan) shifter works, although I haven't tried it.
Barrowman
Posts: 441
Joined: 8 Jan 2022, 6:35pm

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by Barrowman »

Seem to be on top of this (fingers crossed) now have all 4 engaging on the Workstand .
(Having relocated the trigger based on earlier advice )
Just got to ride it now and confirm it works 'in the field' .
So thanks to all for your input. :D
rjb
Posts: 7199
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by rjb »

rogerzilla wrote: 2 Jun 2023, 3:52pm You can open up the trigger and sharpen up the pawl plate with a grinder but it's not easy. Best option is to find a better trigger. Apparently a current 4 speed SA (Taiwan) shifter works, although I haven't tried it.
Has anyone here opened up a Sturmey trigger?.. How did you source the rivets to rebuild it. The trigger I'm using on my Moulton rebuild was seized when I recovered it. Liberal quantities of freeing oil has got it functioning but it feels very gritty and stiff as if it's full of rust.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
hoogerbooger
Posts: 673
Joined: 14 Jun 2009, 11:27am
Location: In Wales

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by hoogerbooger »

I watched a YouTube video on repairing 4 speed triggers. IIRC you use the old rivets and re- rivet them.
old fangled
rogerzilla
Posts: 2887
Joined: 9 Jun 2008, 8:06pm

Re: Sturmey 4 set up Woes

Post by rogerzilla »

Yes, you have to re-use the rivets as new ones haven't been made for decades. I opened one up to make an ASC trigger - this involves grinding one of the detents on a 4-speed trigger a bit deeper.

If just sharpening up a tired 4 speed trigger, you need to do all the detents by the same small amount.
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