Why does nobody believe me?

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Stradageek
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Stradageek »

As may have become apparent from some of my postings I am a big fan of recumbent bikes. However convincing others of their manifest advantages in terms of safety, speed and comfort is a daunting uphill battle, especially in terms of safety.

My latest attempt to get a friend to try the 'dark side' is being thwarted by all his acquaintances telling him he mustn't ride them because they are so dangerous.

My standard arguments are as follows:

They are not too low, even my low-racer has my head at the same height as an MX5 driver and I'm at least a metre higher than the white lines on the road that most motorists seem to be able to see.

I'm traveling feet first not head first, to add to which you can't go over the handlebars on a recumbent. All my accidents have involved sliding gracefully to a halt with the seat taking all the damage.

Car drivers are 'woken up' by the oddity of a recumbent, the 'what is that!!!' factor ensures you get the drivers full attention and the greater 'weaving' to balance a recumbent also demands a response.

Finally the misconception that recumbent riders are 'disabled' combined with the fact that it's not PC to kill a disabled person, also works in our favour.

Perhaps I need a series of video clips showing a queue of cars too scared to overtake me and passing very wide and slow when they do compared to similar footage of cars practically clipping my elbow when passing me on one of my remaining uprights.

Any other thoughts?
steve6854
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by steve6854 »

I don't try to convince anyone about the benefits of 'bents. I just ride and enjoy.

Those with closed minds are not for convincing.
axel_knutt
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by axel_knutt »

The reasons I never considered one are:

They look like neck ache on wheels, based on my experince of not putting reclining seats in cars upright enough.
They're too expensive.
Difficult to balance.
Too big to take on a train.
Additional weight on climbs.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Psamathe
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Psamathe »

Stradageek wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 12:51pm ...
My standard arguments are as follows:

They are not too low, even my low-racer has my head at the same height as an MX5 driver and I'm at least a metre higher than the white lines on the road that most motorists seem to be able to see.
...
I also find many (non-cyclists) comment of "low" and dangerous to which I point out that even though my bent is one of the lower ones (tadpole with 3" ground clearance) I'm still about the size of a large oil drum and if a driver can't spot a large oil drum in the middle of the road in front of them then you're not safe from him/her when you're watching TV in your sitting room - but then add bright flashing lights and a hi-vis flag to the "oil drum" and if driver still can't spot you then ...

Ian
Stradageek
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Stradageek »

axel_knutt wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 2:06pm The reasons I never considered one are:

They look like neck ache on wheels, based on my experince of not putting reclining seats in cars upright enough.
They're too expensive.
Difficult to balance.
Too big to take on a train.
Additional weight on climbs.
Never had any neck ache, the position is akin to sitting on a sofa watching TV and it's often fully adjustable

There's a cracking Flevobike Oke-Ja on Ebay for £196 at the moment

Providing the concept of counter-steering is familiar, balance is not a problem, hence any motor cyclist who's tried my recumbents has just ridden away first time

Trains hmmm, you have a point there, us 'bentriders' and tandem riders both

On climbs, see the previous thread viewtopic.php?t=156213&hilit=climb+hills or just buy a Bacchetta Carbon Aero 3 weighing 20lbs
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Are you sure they don't believe you? There are all sorts of bikes, or rather pedal cycles, I'd like, from a recumbent bike to a mountain bike to a carbon racer to an upright trike to... but personal circumstances such as money, space, time, mean the advantages to me are outweighed by other factors. The only category I'm actually unconvinced about is fixies.
a.twiddler
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by a.twiddler »

steve6854 wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 1:53pm I don't try to convince anyone about the benefits of 'bents. I just ride and enjoy.

Those with closed minds are not for convincing.
How true. Although when I'm out and about on my Linear I get lots of interest, I don't really proselytise. If someone asks me questions I will give them straightforward answers, but even to me, who knows what I say is true, sometimes it sounds hard to believe. Due to its unusual length and underseat steering, they find it all hard to take in. Only the other day when stopped at a cafe someone asked if I'd built it myself. I just have a sort of ready made presentation for these occasions and if they want to ask any other questions I'll answer them.

Reaction has been almost 100% positive. As for teenagers, it seems to cause their heads to implode. The only place there has been any negativity is on cycling forums. I'm more likely to take notice of someone's opinion who has at least ridden a recumbent. Recumbents vary so much between makes and models, that even keen recumbent riders will have different experiences to relate.
PH
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by PH »

Sometimes people make the decision first and decide the reasons for it after. Add to that the huge human desire to fit in, to belong, to be a part of whatever is considered normal. Most people don't like being looked at, standing out, having strangers point, all things a recumbent rider can expect.
I have no desire to ride one, if asked I might say it'd be awkward to get it up the stairs to my flat, which is true, but remove that obstacle and I'd think of another.
I don't think this is much different to why most people don't cycle regularly, it's seen as a bit odd, just to a lesser extent. We've all heard the excuses and they're no more relevant in the UK as they would be where people do cycle more, it's only people doing what they consider normal.
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simonineaston
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by simonineaston »

Any other thoughts?
One question I might ask is to do with the ownership of the issue. You, stradageek, sound like the sort of fellow who's prepared to question the status quo, to explore alternative views, to perservere until a satisfactory solution to a given problem is reached. Sounds good!
Given that you can plough that furrow on your own, without necessarily impacting others, why not just leave them to do with their turf as they will?
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Psamathe
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Psamathe »

simonineaston wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 7:26pm
Any other thoughts?
One question I might ask is to do with the ownership of the issue. You, stradageek, sound like the sort of fellow who's prepared to question the status quo, to explore alternative views, to perservere until a satisfactory solution to a given problem is reached. Sounds good!
Given that you can plough that furrow on your own, without necessarily impacting others, why not just leave them to do with their turf as they will?
On this forum on occasions I've seen questions raised by people suffering some conditions asking about possible ways to avoid them having to give-up cycling. In some cases a bent trike is a good solution provided there isn't the negative attitudes excluding it from consideration.

Ian
Lodge
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Lodge »

I must admit to missing riding recumbent. The two of us sold our trikes last year as it was getting so bone-jarring to be riding unsuspended. With the poor roads and many potholes in the Staffordshire Moorlands it was difficult to pick a smooth path. Plus the high walls and hedges meant I couldn't see much.

My other half still rides recumbent - we have a Hase Pino. But I'm giving serious thought to returning to a two wheeled 'bent, preferably one with suspension. And a motor (it's hilly round here).

And yes, I regularly get close-passed on my upright bike, something which was rare on the ICE Sprint. A tactic I find is useful is to be more assertive and ride towards the centre of the lane, 3/4-1 m from the nearside edge. Close passes often correlate with when I've drifted closer to the nearside edge thereby providing an opportunity for a following vehicle to squeeze past. Playing the old age card (white hair and beard) and wobbling a bit often helps as well. As does a mirror.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Price and practicality are not something to discount with this. A decent upright such as is suitable for touring can be bought for £700 new, a lot less secondhand. A good bent like that such at SMGTe costs what 2k new, £800 secondhand?

Then you have practicality. Trains are difficult in this country, not France ime. Uprights are also difficult on many trains especially busy times unless a small folder like a brompton. I've had a guard try to keep me and my Brompton from getting on a train on my first commute home with it. Uprights get turned away often. Times they allow more than normally allowed on but I don't bents would be allowed on. Mind you on my trains home most of the cycle bays have people sitting on the fold up seats or standing with their massive suitcase. One journey the guard actually told them to move and take their cases as the bay was for cycles. Made me smirk with joy but that's a rare event.

No, if you're not able to freely spend bents are a luxury bike only. Plus impractical for a lot of day to day, utilitarian uses IME. However this is irrelevant. Bents are simply off no interest to most regular cyclists let alone those who only cycle occasionally. That's also OK imho.
Stradageek
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Stradageek »

Interesting comments all, causing me to re-evaluate my motives for proselytising, which I think are two fold.

Firstly, as a scientist by trade and calling I find it slightly silly to eschew a faster, more comfortable mode of transport over a slow and uncomfortable one. Points taken over some practicalities (I have a little folder for shopping runs involving narrow wriggly paths) but I can cycle so much further and faster and in more comfort and see so much more lovely countryside on a recumbent that I'll never go back.

Secondly, volunteering in youth clubs, I see the sad consequences of peer pressure shackling youngsters who are trying to find their own individual path in life. Meeting cyclists in identical kit on identikit bikes tells me that these pressures continue to constrain 'mature' adults. If we are to improve the world we need to encourage people to break free, think differently, think clearly, maybe ride a recumbent :D
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Stradageek wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 10:45pm Interesting comments all, causing me to re-evaluate my motives for proselytising, which I think are two fold.

Firstly, as a scientist by trade and calling I find it slightly silly to eschew a faster, more comfortable mode of transport over a slow and uncomfortable one. Points taken over some practicalities (I have a little folder for shopping runs involving narrow wriggly paths) but I can cycle so much further and faster and in more comfort and see so much more lovely countryside on a recumbent that I'll never go back.

Secondly, volunteering in youth clubs, I see the sad consequences of peer pressure shackling youngsters who are trying to find their own individual path in life. Meeting cyclists in identical kit on identikit bikes tells me that these pressures continue to constrain 'mature' adults. If we are to improve the world we need to encourage people to break free, think differently, think clearly, maybe ride a recumbent :D
As a tandem rider, I'm definitely not constrained by peer pressure to be on an identikit bike.

For me (and these are just personal experiences, not intended to be generalisations), after riding a 'bent for a year when a medical issue left me unable to ride an upright, my experience was:

1. Slower and more effort for my riding, which is generally either very hilly or commuting.

2. Harder to manage traffic, less visibility due to lower height and also less manoeuvrable - can't stand up for a quick acceleration for instance.

3. Attracts a lot more unpleasant attention from motorists - I got quite a bit of random abuse.

4. Harder to transport. An upright I can just put on top or inside the car.

5. Less comfortable. Specifically I get foot cramp, which came on much sooner. Never managed to stop this, not sure why it happened and probably entirely personal to me.

6. Don't get the same views in many lanes with hedges or walls.

Other people expressed safety concerns, but it never bothered me.

I don't think any of these are irrational, and for other people the advantages for them surely outweigh these disadvantages, or they don't apply.

But I definitely don't think a strong preference for uprights is at all illogical for most cyclists.
Stradageek
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Re: Why does nobody believe me?

Post by Stradageek »

I'm possibly coming across a bit too strongly above, so to mollify:

1. Slower and more effort for my riding, which is generally either very hilly or commuting.

Does depend on the type of recumbent (see threads about recumbents and hills) but into a headwind there is no competition; that 'cycling into a brick wall' feeling is gone, never to return

2. Harder to manage traffic, less visibility due to lower height and also less manoeuvrable - can't stand up for a quick acceleration for instance.

All true, no track-stands and slower to get started. My 'urban' recumbent (a 1999 BikeE) is higher and close to an upright in terms of manoeverabilty but I do tend to use my upright folder in heavy traffic even with the disadvantage of having to look out for clipped elbows

3. Attracts a lot more unpleasant attention from motorists - I got quite a bit of random abuse.


Know what you mean, though I get more smiles and thumbs-up than (always unintelligible) abuse. Where I've encountered serious blaring of horns etc. it's always been from subsequently shame faced individuals who, rarely encountering recumbents, assume that I'm a teenager pulling a wheelie.

4. Harder to transport. An upright I can just put on top or inside the car.

It is a tandem sized problem I admit

5. Less comfortable. Specifically I get foot cramp, which came on much sooner. Never managed to stop this, not sure why it happened and probably entirely personal to me.

After a 100mile veterans ride I dismounted, put the bike in the back of the car and toddled home. All the other cyclists in my group were massaging sore necks, wrists, shoulders, backs and bums. There is a phenomenon known as 'recumbent butt' but never heard of foot cramp.

6. Don't get the same views in many lanes with hedges or walls.


True on my low-racer and trike but not on my BikeE or high-racer. And to return to point 1. on one wet and windy ride with upright friends they seriously envied my dry and windless hedge-sheltered position.

Mike Burrows opined that cycle touring was where recumbents ought to have taken root, though I think country leisure riding is where they really score.

Whatever the considerations I still think there should be more recumbents out there and certainly would be if the UCI hadn't taken the hump at having their track team demolished in 1938 by a rider in home made recumbent and thereafter banned them from road racing.

But if there were more recumbents on the road maybe drivers would no longer 'wake-up' when the see them...... :?
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