Why does nobody believe me?

[Nearholmer]

Maybe you need to think about how others use their bikes, and whether a recumbent could meet their usage profile.

My perception is that recumbents really only work on fairly smooth surfaces, fairly sensible gradients, and places where turning space is reasonably generous ….,.,, roads and top-quality paths essentially, although maybe that isn’t quite right.

A proportion of people use bikes on noticeably bumpy surfaces, daft gradients, where it is necessary to wiggle through difficult gaps, or carry the bike for short periods. In fact, I wonder whether many cyclists encounter at least one of those conditions quite frequently, even if they aren’t the sort of person who actively seeks out as many of them as possible.

I’m not “agin” recumbents; I just can’t see how using one wouldn’t become seriously restrictive of where I could go.

[Psamathe]

I think distinguishing between 2 and 3 wheel bents is significant so when somebody says eg

...
My perception is that recumbents really only work on ... fairly sensible gradients...

Certainly the opposite is true for 3 wheel bents where (with appropriate gearing) you can probably take on "less sensible" gradients as you don't have a minimum speed when balance becomes difficult.

Ian

[Nearholmer]

I admit, I hadn’t thought of three-wheelers, but how do you keep the front wheel(s) on he ground on a really steep climb?

I often find that it is more the difficulty of keeping the front wheel on the ground than slowness/balance that causes me to have to get off on steep climbs, typically when the ground is loose, so standing up and throwing weight to the front, thereby unloading the back wheel, causes loss of traction.

I have seen people using three-wheeler hand-cycles on some pretty interesting paths though, thnkng about it.

[squeaker]

I admit, I hadn’t thought of three-wheelers, but how do you keep the front wheel(s) on he ground on a really steep climb?

I can only speak with experience of 'tadpole' trikes (2 at the front, RWD) where the centre of gravity remains ahead of the wheel contact point with the ground, and you're not pulling on the handlebars
I recall reading that 'delta' configuration (1 at the front, 1 or 2 driven at the rear) can unweight the front sufficiently for it to hop sideways (if only 1 rear driven) on steep road climbs - laden front panniers, or 2 wheel drive, seems to be a solution...

[Nearholmer]

Interesting, I’m beginning to get me head round the weight distribution a bit better now.

you're not pulling on the handlebars

You shouldn’t be doing that on a conventional bike on a steep climb either. I admit I made that mistake at the beginning, but you soon learn that if seated you let your arms go slack to avoid it, and if standing you’re pushing down on the bars anyway, which is why you do it.

[squeaker]

Providing the concept of counter-steering is familiar, balance is not a problem, hence any motor cyclist who's tried my recumbents has just ridden away first time

Trains hmmm, you have a point there, us 'bentriders' and tandem riders both

On climbs, see the previous thread viewtopic.php?t=156213&hilit=climb+hills or just buy a Bacchetta Carbon Aero 3 weighing 20lbs

Steering: on a smooth surface, I'd have to agree with you, but IME 406 wheels (HPV Grasshopper) are twitchy on gravel and easily upset by pothole edges...
Trains: very 'bent dependent: my Grasshopper is the same overall length as my Marin MTB, and has never proved a problem on trains. (My usual problem is finding the correct carriage )
Gradients: as part of a 10 mile training loop (170m elevation) that I've done regularly on a range of machines (flat bar Cotic Roadrat, full suspension HPV Grasshopper, ICE Sprint 26 and 'T' trikes, WAW velomobile) there's a 4 to 5% uphill drag for about 300 m. I'm not that fit, but fastest up that was the Roadrat, followed by the WAW (4% slower). The latter was significantly (13%) faster than the Roadrat on the whole circuit, with the Grasshopper closest at 17% slower. Doubtless more training might have changed these percentages, but life's too short, and I enjoy the pain free riding position on the 'bents (apart from the pedalling effort, that is). My impression from this comparison is that it's easier to keep on top of a gear with a 'conventional' bike, whereas changing down and spinning is more the 'bent way that works for me. YMMV, of course.

[pjclinch]

As Robert A Heinlein pointed out:

Man is not a rational animal; he is a rationalizing animal.

Rationalising generally involves starting with your answer and inventing reasoning that fits it. Since "everybody knows" the way to build a bike is the usual way, that's the answer people start with. And anything else must be "wrong", especially if they have (and have spent a lot on) the standard.

I've had a conversation, literally eye-level to eye-level with a driver that went something like...
"It must be dangerous down there"
"Down where?"
"you're so low!"
"I'm at exactly the same level as you"
"... but you're so low!"

When I lent my 'bent to a friend who was having a spot of back trouble it came back with a flag. Apparently his usual riding pals wouldn't let him ride without one because he was "invisible". I took it off, and have remained stubbornly visible in any case.

But, of course, a road bike which encourages a heads-down riding position limiting forward vision and encouraging one to sail over the bars head-first in the event of a prang, is good, safe design...

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. And so it is with cyclists and 'bents. Given that Moultons are viewed with intense suspicion by the wider population of Cycling Enthusiasts because they use smaller than average wheels! you're asking a lot of people to accept something with a comfy chair! Still, their loss and not ours.

Pete.

[pjclinch]

Maybe you need to think about how others use their bikes, and whether a recumbent could meet their usage profile.

My perception is that recumbents really only work on fairly smooth surfaces, fairly sensible gradients, and places where turning space is reasonably generous ….,.,, roads and top-quality paths essentially, although maybe that isn’t quite right.

Last year's summer tour my wife and I took our touring bents on significant (i.e. several miles) off-road sections with full camping luggage (and we didn't bother letting down our 90 psi tyres either). Not optimal, but not a particular problem. Unless it's sufficiently bonkers that you need to stand up to shift balance around it's really a bit of a non-issue.

Now, if I was doing a gravel tour, as opposed to a road tour with gravel options, I doubt I'd choose a 'bent, but that's quite different to "only works on roads and top quality paths"

There are excellent reasons not to ride a 'bent. Primarily the cheap mass market doesn't exist, and as pretty much all laidback riders will stress try before you buy as different brands/models are far less interchangeable than typically the case for upwrongs, and there's hardly anywhere you can try a big range... I ride an upwrog as my usual everyday hack as it's much more manoeuvrable and easier to manhandle and the comfort advantages are a bit moot if I'm not riding for several hours, and so on.

Given a choice of a conservative "I know this will do what I need" against "this might be better, but I only heave hearsay and theory to go on, even the fanboys say I'll need a month to get used to it and it could be a very expensive dud" I don't think it's too surprising people tend to stick with what they know.
What I don't really understand, on the other hand, is the sort of experienced rider who looks at one and opines something like, "you'll never get me on one of those things!" as if they're the exclusive province of the Mad, Bad & Dangerous to Know.

Pete.

[Stradageek]

The discussion continues and good points made by all. On the issue of off-road/rough road riding on a recumbent I have two observations:

Firstly, having tried it myself it is possible but a little scary, being unable to move your body weight around means that you feel, and often are, not fully in control. But providing you keep moving you generally keep upright and it's not far to fall if you stop.

However, as these guys showed https://kickasstrips.com/2013/03/off-th ... ent-bikes/ it can be done

[pjclinch]

Also on off-road...

The first crossing of the Antarctic by cycle was done on a recumbent trike, nominative determinism fans will be pleased to note it was an ICE.

Hase made a video of some Silliness on Kettwiesels that suggests roads and good paths aren't the only places for them,

Pete.

[Tangled Metal]

Bents are not universally faster. In fact bents are varied machines and varied suitability. You can't generalise. A road bent built for speed is faster but my SMGT is not that. I am consistently slower than on my upright which is a drop bar commuter (PX London Road). That's not a fast road bike neither but its significantly faster even after I had a year of only riding the bent to get used to it.

There's a few bent riders near me, mostly trikes with motors. I am the only two wheeled bent rider. Where I've moved to since I stopped riding the bent is more hilly and I struggle with my bent. I am unable to average more than 8 to 10mph on a 10 mile run. I would need to spend quite some time to get my bent legs going again to speed up. Do I really want to bother with that when I can simply ride my upright faster and more enjoyably from day one?

BTW my upright gets used on road, trails, mtb trails and on fully loaded cycle tours. It copes well in all cycling types I use it for. I have tried my bent on a flat, muddy canal towpath route. That was fun! Cycling back I got to see my tyre marks on the return leg. It consisted of continuous figure of 8 trails as the front and rear wheels snaked in opposite directions. Always correcting the permanent slide! I enjoyed it but totally impractical for making progress.

I get that the OP loves bents and sees them as the best solution for cycling. As someone who has ridden them and given one a real good go at falling for the laidback cycling I can honestly say it is 100% down to what suits you, not what others think. The biggest point is choice. Second is price / affordability. Third is suitability for you. Whilst most ppl don't look into them it's not fair to simply write their choice off as not giving bents a chance. If you've got a solution that works for you and you like there simply isn't much of a driver to want to try bents which do have a threshold of effort and time to get to being able to use them as well as you can your upright.

[UpWrong]

I've been riding recumbents since 2006 and I get the impression that more people are familiar with them today than used to be the case. I don't get any hostile reactions now either. Generally other riders seem to know of them, find them a curiousity but don't feel a need to give them a try. And why would you if you are happy and comfortable on your upright? The defining difference is comfort and that's what I always emphasise when chatting to people.

I really really hate flags. However I'd rather have my head at car window height than below it, and I use hi-viz helmets which present quite a large area of noticeability for recumbent riders. If you use a helmet anyway, then why not?

[yakdiver]

They are too close to the ground, no one will see you, you'll be killed in less than a week......
Thats what kept me from buying one..........
Having owned since 2016, I'm still alive and still smiling every time I use it

[Nearholmer]

Hase made a video of some Silliness on Kettwiesels that suggests roads and good paths aren't the only places for them,

Now, that looks fun, sort-of wheeled sledging. I want a go!

Did they pedal to the top before starting though?

The impression I’m coming away from this thread with is that:

- these animals are more versatile than I thought;

- they may do some things better than conventional bikes;

- but, they are not as versatile as a conventional bike, and they cost more money, so you have to value highly the things that they do better, and lowly the things that they do worse or can’t do at all, to find them compellingly attractive.

[UpWrong]

15 second clip of arguably the best off-road recumbent trike,
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxDv3YSn0C13 ... LA0w2CLafQ