The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

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horizon
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The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by horizon »

Well, the National Trust are at it again:

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... ns-7972956

That's doubling the car park size at the Trelissick estate in Cornwall to 600 cars. No mention of cycling, alternative ways of handllng the traffic and no mention either of the National Trust's own constant marketing and encouragement of visitor numbers.
AFAICS they are basically interested cash income and expansion. Most sites these days will have other other attractions as well to encourage visitors and keep the kids from getting bored. George Orwell would have had a field day with the Trust's own verbiage on how it protects places of ... blah, blah.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
seanpk
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by seanpk »

Just reading Nick Hayes The Book of Trespass, makes you think very differently about the NT and how they perpetuate many social myths and fail to engage with where these properties came from and at what cost.
rareposter
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by rareposter »

They're doing the same at Lyme Park:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... t-car-park

Every single weekend, the main road (A6) outside the property is queuing for ages to turn into it and then in the evening the queue to get back out stretches half way into the park. There's near zero provision for active travel. There's no thought to put on a park and ride service from the nearest big station.

Just the same old dinosaurs of "oh we need more car parking..." and then if anyone dares suggest making NT places more popular for cycling, it's met with cries of "oh but the environment, speeding bikes, safety, cyclists hurtling..."
geocycle
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by geocycle »

The answer is in their hands: free scones for cyclists! Seriously, the transport problem needs sticks and carrots if it is to work. Limited parking and high charges are one end of the equation, the other is subsidized entrance for none car use and realistic public transport options. It's not dissimilar to the situation facing most town centres.
mattheus
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by mattheus »

geocycle wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 4:05pm ...
It's not dissimilar to the situation facing most town centres.
Yeah.

But I think the problem is that they're acting like an out-of-town Superstore (understandable from a business POV), rather than town planners.

Sad :(
pwa
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by pwa »

geocycle wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 4:05pm The answer is in their hands: free scones for cyclists! Seriously, the transport problem needs sticks and carrots if it is to work. Limited parking and high charges are one end of the equation, the other is subsidized entrance for none car use and realistic public transport options. It's not dissimilar to the situation facing most town centres.
If I were going to a distant NT property and the only option was public transport, I'd probably decide it wasn't worth the effort, and I'd stay at home. If enough people took the same view, the NT would go bust. Park and Ride might work in some places, but where would the "park" bit of that be? There would still have to be a car park somewhere.
rotavator
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by rotavator »

Their business model, at least for visiting country houses and gardens etc, is highly dependent on customers driving there in their cars and I suspect most of their customers like it that way, i.e. they much prefer the comfort, speed, reliability and privacy that car travel provides to using public transport or a bike. I don't have any statistics to support this but I do have experience of buses never turning up and trains being cancelled which would mean a day out being cancelled or curtailed and disappointment.

If I had to use buses to visit the nearest NT property to where I live I would probably still do so, but it would be much less often and I would have to be prepared for no shows/cancellations. Going there by bike along a busy hilly A road would be just too scary and unpleasant for me and I suspect most cyclists. Incidentally, I saw one cyclist using that road today and I thought "rather you than me, mate". I am sorry if I sound like a fan of cars, I am not, but currently for many journeys outside cities they are a more attractive option than public transport (where it is available).
Nearholmer
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by Nearholmer »

I’m an NT member, despite periodically finding their stance and emphasis on some things a bit out of kilter with mine (too much worship of historic privilege, and too little analysis of it, IMO), and I find their attitude to cyclists more than a tad unhelpful at times.

At some sites they actively encourage cycling around the estate, one or two even have bike and trailer hire, but it mostly seems to be “drive to ride” focused. There usually is bike parking, but the big issue is lack of secure bike parking. I’ve more than once had conversations with staff/volunteers where I’ve had to persuade them to let me wheel my bike into the site to use the cafe, breaching a “no bikes” rule (or is it assumption on their part, where they conflate “no cycling”, which is usually understandable, with “no bikes”, which usually isn’t) because the bike stands are carefully located, nicely secluded, for thieving. It’s not as if having a faintly posh air about a place, and a ‘nice’ gift shop creates a magic force field that prevents thieves from getting within a mile or two.

There are “park and ride” systems on some NT estates, and some now have “park and a pretty decent walk, with a shuttle-buggy for those who can’t walk”. But, overall, the NT operates in the real world of now, which is to say near universal private car use
fastpedaller
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by fastpedaller »

I can understand their stance (I am an NT and also English Heritage member (used the Tesco bonus for that :D )). They need to make a large income to maintain the upkeep of the properties. This is probably the best way to do it. Maybe not ideal, but what is? Our park and rides into Norwich are so expensive that unless you are a lone driver, it's cheaper and more convenient to just drive the car and park in the City - Again, not ideal, but much more convenient if an evening trip, or a Sunday afternoon (when the buses don't run). Unless public transport fits the needs of the public, they won't use it!
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horizon
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by horizon »

rotavator wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 6:34pm Their business model, at least for visiting country houses and gardens etc, is highly dependent on customers driving there in their cars and I suspect most of their customers like it that way,
I was at Trelissick at the weekend. My impression is that people don't use their cars to visit Trelissick but that they use Trelissick to provide them with somewhere to go in their cars.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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mjr
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by mjr »

fastpedaller wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 11:26pm Our park and rides into Norwich are so expensive that unless you are a lone driver, it's cheaper and more convenient to just drive the car and park in the City - Again, not ideal, but much more convenient if an evening trip, or a Sunday afternoon (when the buses don't run). Unless public transport fits the needs of the public, they won't use it!
I agree that public transport needs to fit the needs of the public, but if you use false dichotomies like that to oppose it, then you must also be in favour of cannibalism ;-)

It's currently cheapest (thanks to the £2 fare cap) and most convenient for one or two people to take the bus into Norwich. Fuel prices are high enough and that fare cap is low enough that if your line doesn't have an evening or Sunday service and you need it, it's probably even worth only driving to a stop on one that does, rather than into a city centre where the nicer car parks charge between £11 (St Andrews) and £17.50 (Chantry Place) for 6½ daytime hours. (Of course, you can park for £6.50 on the roadside just outside the centre, or £4.50 on the gravel wasteland next to Anglia Square, but I think cyclists prefer more secure parking and aren't driving smokey bangers.)

Back on topic, I think I walked when I visited Trelissick, staying (and riding from) nearby. The worst bit was having to walk around the car park to reach the gate to get in! I wonder if they're making that an even longer walk. They really didn't seem to have much idea that people would visit on foot, or by bike despite NCN 3 running right through the middle of the gardens.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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mjr
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by mjr »

http://bustimes.org/services/493-truro- ... eock-truro appears to be the only bus service there. 1 per 2 hours, with different calling patterns, not serving Truro bus or rail stations. That's barely worse than the ferry connection to Falmouth. Maybe NT should fund an hourly shuttle to Truro stations before funding a bigger car park.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Tangled Metal
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by Tangled Metal »

Public transport is very convenient. Last NT place I visited I got a a train right there. Edinburgh, Glasgow, my house then terminating at a Cheshire country house. Couldn't be more convenient!

Seriously, most country houses were out of the way a bit. Car driving to get there is unfortunately to be expected. As a kid our family had membership and took advantage of it too. We had to drive there as that was the cheapest and only practical way to get to these places. However I do remember having to drive around the carparks for quite some time until we got lucky with a place to park. I do believe we drove out of one place when we got sick of waiting to find a parking spot.

They're a lot better for carparking now but making a place easier to visit might not sit well with some if it involves cars.
Pebble
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by Pebble »

geocycle wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 4:05pm The answer is in their hands: free scones for cyclists! Seriously, the transport problem needs sticks and carrots if it is to work. Limited parking and high charges are one end of the equation, the other is subsidized entrance for none car use and realistic public transport options. It's not dissimilar to the situation facing most town centres.
Not just free Scones and Carrot Cake, (you forgot cake, and tea?). But the whole day out should be free for cyclists. And may be this scheme could be rolled out to everything (except buying cars)
Psamathe
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Re: The National Trust: one small step for man, one giant car park for mankind.

Post by Psamathe »

Original report was late Dec last year. What was the Planning decision (approved or rejected?).

Ian
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