New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
Post Reply
User avatar
printedland
Posts: 113
Joined: 21 Feb 2017, 9:48am
Location: Cumbria

New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by printedland »

I am renovating a 1987 Raleigh Granada tourer. I want it to be functional, so not bothered about absolute authenticity.

The spokes are very worn in places, so I'll be building up a new pair of wheels. I'll use the existing Maillard hubs, but not sure about the Weinmann alloy rims. The braking has never been amazing, and I wonder if a new pair of rims would, along with all-new spokes, a) improve the ride of the bike, and b) improve the braking.

Any views? Are these old hubs of any decent quality? I see I can get a new pair of Exal rims for £28 from Spa Cycles, so it's not exactly a huge expense.
rareposter
Posts: 1992
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by rareposter »

Personally I would never rebuild onto old rims, especially not ones that date from 1987!
Old hubs, yes - I've got a set that are on their third rim now - but if you're going to the time and trouble of building wheels, it makes sense to use new parts that haven't been through the stress and tension of a build already and aren't part worn.

New rims will give stiffer, stronger wheels with a perfect braking surface - remember to fit new brake pads at the same time.
User avatar
SimonCelsa
Posts: 1232
Joined: 6 Apr 2011, 10:19pm

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by SimonCelsa »

I built up a pair of Exal XR2 rims a few years ago and I had a real bugger of a job getting the tyres on. I was using 23mm Gatorskins I think.

I hardly use the bike these XR2 rims are fitted to, so maybe others could post their own experiences and comment on whether these rims are 'tight fit' or it's just me being a pussy!
TheBomber
Posts: 525
Joined: 16 Feb 2020, 8:18pm

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by TheBomber »

A modern rim should be stiffer (is that what you were getting at re ‘improving the ride’?) and stronger - but it wouldn’t have occurred to me that it was a way to improve braking. I’d be looking at elsewhere to fix that.

What OLD dimension is the rear hub? Do you want a cassette hub or happy with your freewheel? And what about the condition of the bearing surfaces and cones in both hubs? They won’t be sealed in any way so will have relied on quality of maintenance over their 35 year life to date.
User avatar
printedland
Posts: 113
Joined: 21 Feb 2017, 9:48am
Location: Cumbria

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by printedland »

TheBomber wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 6:02pm A modern rim should be stiffer (is that what you were getting at re ‘improving the ride’?) and stronger - but it wouldn’t have occurred to me that it was a way to improve braking. I’d be looking at elsewhere to fix that.

What OLD dimension is the rear hub? Do you want a cassette hub or happy with your freewheel? And what about the condition of the bearing surfaces and cones in both hubs? They won’t be sealed in any way so will have relied on quality of maintenance over their 35 year life to date.
Thanks - and thanks to the other replies too
The OLD is 100 front, 126 rear. I'm happy to continue with the 6-speed freewheel, and although I haven't looked inside the hubs yet, they feel pretty smooth.

The braking itself is not too bad. They are centre pull brakes, but I've fitted new brake levers and long brake blocks, and it's perfectly acceptable.
Carlton green
Posts: 3645
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by Carlton green »

printedland wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 3:39pm I am renovating a 1987 Raleigh Granada tourer. I want it to be functional, so not bothered about absolute authenticity.

The spokes are very worn in places, so I'll be building up a new pair of wheels. I'll use the existing Maillard hubs, but not sure about the Weinmann alloy rims. The braking has never been amazing, and I wonder if a new pair of rims would, along with all-new spokes, a) improve the ride of the bike, and b) improve the braking.

Any views? Are these old hubs of any decent quality? I see I can get a new pair of Exal rims for £28 from Spa Cycles, so it's not exactly a huge expense.
The perceived wisdom and likely best route is to fit new rims and new spokes. What would I do? Well:
A) I’m too tight for my own good so if a rim has life left in it I re-use it and I save old spokes (if they’re in pass-able condition) to use again. Works for me but it’s probably false economy, I just blame my formative years when ya’ just had to make do and mend whatever ya’ could find.
B) If it ain’t broke then don’t fix it, if it’s only a little broke then fix that bit and leave the rest alone.

If you haven’t split the wheels into hubs, spokes and rims already then changing a few spokes at a time is easier, imho, than build up from component parts.

Centre pull braking isn’t amazing, but it’s a lot better than the side-pulls that I have on my everyday bike. Provided the existing rims are in good condition I can’t see new rims giving better braking, but I’m happy to be shown evidence to the contrary. ‘Better’ brake blocks seem to make a difference and so do good inner and outer cables.

Edit. Obviously - except that it’s not - if you do decide to fit new rims then consider tyre to mudguard and frame clearance and future tyre choices. In terms of obstacles to enjoying cycling narrow tyres are, IMHO, one of the bigger ones and, for me at least, wider rims seem to stay truer than narrow ones. There’s a current thread on tyre widths elsewhere; as in that thread my frames are limited to 700 x 35C but those tyres give me a better riding experience than the narrower ones that they replaced.

As others have also said it’s well worth checking (with a magnifying glass) the condition of the bearing cup and cone faces. The rear wheel drive side is, I think, the place where most damage will be seem. Use extreme pressure ball bearing grease in hubs - the drive side rear sees a lot of load.
Last edited by Carlton green on 6 Jun 2023, 9:31am, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
TheBomber
Posts: 525
Joined: 16 Feb 2020, 8:18pm

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by TheBomber »

I’d definitely be checking inside the hub before investing the time on rebuilding. The cones will be quite simple affairs but still nor sure whether you’d be able to get anything compatible that isn’t made of cheese.

Some older 7 speed cassette hubs were 126 OLD so you would be able to find something used to suit though it will be difficult to know what condition they are internally until disassembled. Can you get new 126 cassette or freewheel hubs? Sure somebody here will know. A steel frame could be sprung to 130 which will more compatible with more components, but does require more expense or some brave ‘wrenching’.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by 531colin »

Theres a pair of XR2s here if you want them, near Harrogate.
They are too narrow for any tyres that I ride now, my days of riding 28s are over.
The rims are so narrow that my more than 60 year old tyre levers were tricky, levering the first bead off, the lever end caught the bead hook on the opposite side of the rim.
User avatar
printedland
Posts: 113
Joined: 21 Feb 2017, 9:48am
Location: Cumbria

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by printedland »

531colin wrote: 6 Jun 2023, 8:19am Theres a pair of XR2s here if you want them, near Harrogate.
They are too narrow for any tyres that I ride now, my days of riding 28s are over.
The rims are so narrow that my more than 60 year old tyre levers were tricky, levering the first bead off, the lever end caught the bead hook on the opposite side of the rim.
That's great to know - thanks Colin. I would be interested, but not likely to be near Harrogate in the near future. I'll DM you.
mig
Posts: 2702
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by mig »

what size are the original rims ? 700c? or 27 inch?
iandusud
Posts: 1577
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by iandusud »

If the rim are in good nick reuse them. However if there is any significant wear on them now's the time to change them. Modern rims are stronger/stiffer but that generally equates to the use of less spokes. I assume that your wheels are 36 spokes which will build strong wheels with the original Weinmanns. Just my thoughts.
User avatar
printedland
Posts: 113
Joined: 21 Feb 2017, 9:48am
Location: Cumbria

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by printedland »

mig wrote: 6 Jun 2023, 9:00am what size are the original rims ? 700c? or 27 inch?
They are 700. My guess is one of the first years when Raleigh moved from 27" to 700....
User avatar
andrew_s
Posts: 5795
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 9:29pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by andrew_s »

I've got some XR2s going for $cheap, if anyone wants to pick them up.
Like Colin, I ride fatter tyres these days (XR2 is max 28 mm, in my book).
crazyfrog
Posts: 7
Joined: 8 Jun 2023, 10:13am

Re: New rims, or just re-lace the old ones?

Post by crazyfrog »

It depends. If the parts are readily available and don’t cost a fortune replace.
Post Reply