Wheel truing - easier than I thought

[maximus meridius]

I'm bring a neglected bike back to life. It's actually done about 20 miles probably. But then stood for 15 years.

Doing the front brakes I was fed up of the swish-swish of rubbing as I tried to get them set up. So I thought I'd have a go.

First I thought - "oh no, I'll need yet another tool, a truing stand". And knowing me, I'd end up getting some super duper Park Tool thing. So for once in my life I resisted the excuse to buy a tool and googled. It's obvious I suppose. You need something that will hold a bike wheel securely and let it spin freely. That would be a bike, wouldn't it? I've got a bike stand, so that's sorted.

As I was doing the brakes anyway, I just took them off to get them out of the way. And put a cable tie round one fork, and cut it so it was nearly touching the rim. Then:

1. Turned the cable tie so I could only hear one rub per rotation. That must be the most "out of true" part.

2. Let the wheel slow, identify roughly where the out of true section was.

2a. Curse the builders next door who have decided to start using a circular saw/router so I can't hear the rub. When they've stopped:

3. Rotate the wheel slowly by hand, listen, mark the start and end of the out of true section.

4. Mark the centre of that section, and turn the spoke nipples 1/4 of a turn in the appropriate direction on that nipple, and gradually less on each successive spoke, moving outwards from the centre.

Repeat, moving the cable tie progressively inwards.

That was the front. I didn't even bother using the cable tie on the back, just used the sound of the rim rubbing on brake pads, and progressively moved them inwards on the cable adjuster.

I've "twanged" the spokes, and they all sound more or less the same note.

I couldn't believe it was so easy. Brakes now a lot sharper and closer to the rims. Mind you, these are V brakes, so a bit "binary" in operation.

Things I've learned:

1. Triflow isn't harmful to rubber, so a little on the spokes, to run down into the nipple threads might be a good idea. A little bit of lubrication on the nipples is a good idea*

2. If you've found a tool with two nipple wrenches on it, make sure you use the right one. I've rounded a couple of the nipples on the front, but pliers work anyway.

3. The direction for loosening/tightening the spokes is counter intuitive.

Cheers.

*oh, come on, nobody's going to pass up that opportunity are they?

[pwa]

I'm okay with truing, but many years ago my wife had a colleague and friend whose husband had a go at truing his own wheels and made a hash of it. So he slackened off all the spokes to make the wheels floppy, then took them to a bike shop and told the owner that they had been sabotaged by a prankster at work. Easier than admitting the truth.

Oh, and if you are going to do this job frequently, treat yourself to a proper nipple key for the sort of spokes you have. It will be much nicer to use than one of those tools with different sized slots.

[freeflow]

Did you also check for roundness? Having the spokes at the same tension is not the same as having the wheel round (It should be but.......)

[maximus meridius]

I'm okay with truing, but many years ago my wife had a colleague and friend whose husband had a go at truing his own wheels and made a hash of it. So he slackened off all the spokes to make the wheels floppy, then took them to a bike shop and told the owner that they had been sabotaged by a prankster at work. Easier than admitting the truth.

I watched a video by RJ The Bike Guy, where he said 1/4 of a turn at the most. Which I stuck by. Very gradual adjustments. Identify only one "out of true" section per rotation at once. Take it steady.

Nice thing to do on a sunny afternoon, with a coffee or two, radio on, on the back patio.

As I said, the hardest thing to do was remember which way to turn, as it's sort of the opposite to what you might think.

I might try to get it even more true, and refine my method to include tape to mark the beginning and end of out of true sections, or something.

But to be honest just watching them now, I'm pretty happy. And as I said, these brakes are very sharp now.

[pwa]

And as mentioned already, are they also round? Up and down matters, as well as side to side.

[maximus meridius]

Did you also check for roundness? Having the spokes at the same tension is not the same as having the wheel round (It should be but.......)

They look fairly round to me Mind you, maybe these round wheels are over-rated. This is probably the way forward:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKyNqc1p2iw

Seriously now folks, how would I check that? If I use my patent pending cable tie method, presumably locating it near the outside edge of the rim and spinning the wheel? Does it matter much? What are the symptoms/problems of an out of round wheel.

I didn't do a massive amount of work, so I don't think it will have changed much from it's original shape. 26" wheels, by the way.

[TheBomber]

Next up: “Wheel building - easier than I thought”. And why would that be? Because you start out with spokes and nipples with threads that are clean so they turn better with less backlash. If you can true an old wheel then provided you have some patience and can follow instructions, you can build wheels.

Congratulations on joining the wheel gang.

[DaveReading]

3. The direction for loosening/tightening the spokes is counter intuitive.

I think the secret is that one is opposite to the other.

Sorry, couldn't resist. But well done, nonetheless.

[pwa]

If you ride on a wheel that is more than 1 or 2mm out of round (so oval, if you like) you will find it feels like you are riding on a bumpy road even when you are not.

With the wheel secured in the frame or fork, bit preferably without a tyre, put the bike upside down. Spin the wheel whilst holding something like a lolly stick or ruler so it just touches the lip of the rim. To keep it steady, brace your hand against a chain stay or something else. A wheel that isn't round will touch in some places and not in others. The spots where the wheel touches most firmly need the spokes on both sides done up a bit. You may need to ease off the tension on the spots where the rim doesn't touch the edge. Find something on Youtube if you need this more visually.

[fastpedaller]

If you ride on a wheel that is more than 1 or 2mm out of round (so oval, if you like) you will find it feels like you are riding on a bumpy road even when you are not.

With the wheel secured in the frame or fork, bit preferably without a tyre, put the bike upside down. Spin the wheel whilst holding something like a lolly stick or ruler so it just touches the lip of the rim. To keep it steady, brace your hand against a chain stay or something else. A wheel that isn't round will touch in some places and not in others. The spots where the wheel touches most firmly need the spokes on both sides done up a bit. You may need to ease off the tension on the spots where the rim doesn't touch the edge. Find something on Youtube if you need this more visually.

recently I pumped my rear tyre a little and left home for a long ride..... One mile on I thought "hey, that's a strange rhythmic up-down on this surface". I stopped at the next junction and examined the tyre, finding some cords had clearly started 'relaxing' - not confident it would last, I immediately retraced to home and fitted another wheel. It was oval by about 3mm (the tyre, not the wheel)

[531colin]

Some very strange advice here!

If your spokes are tight enough to ride, there is a lot of friction in the thread; and I'm talking about new stainless spokes and new brass nipples. There is so much friction that the spoke "winds up" as you turn the nipple, so that a quarter turn is the least correction you can make, it isn't the biggest you should do. It goes like this; to tighten a quarter turn, you turn the nipple almost half a turn, then "back a bit" to "unwind" the spoke. ....you'll get the feel of it after the first 10 wheels you build. (joking, its easier than that!)
If you can't work out which way to turn the nipple, just remember a nipple is a special sort of nut. If you are the sort of person who can't work our which way to unscrew their sump plug to change the engine oil, take up stamp collecting. (which way does the plug unscrew when you are underneath it?....exactly the same way as when you are above it!)

As a quarter turn is the smallest alteration you can make, it follows that all the nipples should be aligned exactly the same, so the spoke key goes straight on without fumbling and without having to look at it. If you have a long slow buckle, you need to adjust several spokes a small amount, say a quarter turn. If you have a short sharp buckle, you need to adjust half a turn in the middle and a quarter at the edges. Its better to under-correct and go back for a second time than to over do it first time around.

Don't waste time marking the buckle you are working on, just hold the rim in the middle of the buckle while you adjust the spokes. (If you keep marking buckles, soon the whole rim will be "marked" and you won't know where you are)

Its only the tension in the spokes and the friction in the nipple threads which stops the nipples rotating and the tension reducing. It follows that lubricating the nipples should be done with caution...eventually I only used to lubricate the rear driveside nipples, as they should be the only ones where the tension makes them difficult to turn: lubricating non driveside rear is a no-no, because they can be slack enough to undo on their own.

Buy yourself a couple of Spokeys......different colour for different size nipples, ie European and Far Eastern.
https://spacycles.co.uk/m13b0s72p1122/RIXEN-KAUL-Spokey
They go right round the nipple and you won't round out nipples with them. Throw away the rounded out nipples (or spokes) you can't tighten spokes enough to ride using pliers.

Buy a book by Jobst Brandt....called something obvious like "Bicycle wheels"

Correcting "out of round" needs a lot of spoke winding......the pitch of the thread is probably less than 1mm, so 1 whole turn won't move the rim 1mm radially.....on spokes from both flanges, obviously.

[maximus meridius]

Some very strange advice here!

If your spokes are tight enough to ride, there is a lot of friction in the thread; and I'm talking about new stainless spokes and new brass nipples. There is so much friction that the spoke "winds up" as you turn the nipple, so that a quarter turn is the least correction you can make, it isn't the biggest you should do. It goes like this; to tighten a quarter turn, you turn the nipple almost half a turn, then "back a bit" to "unwind" the spoke. ....you'll get the feel of it after the first 10 wheels you build. (joking, its easier than that!)
If you can't work out which way to turn the nipple, just remember a nipple is a special sort of nut. If you are the sort of person who can't work our which way to unscrew their sump plug to change the engine oil, take up stamp collecting. (which way does the plug unscrew when you are underneath it?....exactly the same way as when you are above it!)

As a quarter turn is the smallest alteration you can make, it follows that all the nipples should be aligned exactly the same, so the spoke key goes straight on without fumbling and without having to look at it. If you have a long slow buckle, you need to adjust several spokes a small amount, say a quarter turn. If you have a short sharp buckle, you need to adjust half a turn in the middle and a quarter at the edges. Its better to under-correct and go back for a second time than to over do it first time around.

Don't waste time marking the buckle you are working on, just hold the rim in the middle of the buckle while you adjust the spokes. (If you keep marking buckles, soon the whole rim will be "marked" and you won't know where you are)

Its only the tension in the spokes and the friction in the nipple threads which stops the nipples rotating and the tension reducing. It follows that lubricating the nipples should be done with caution...eventually I only used to lubricate the rear driveside nipples, as they should be the only ones where the tension makes them difficult to turn: lubricating non driveside rear is a no-no, because they can be slack enough to undo on their own.

Buy yourself a couple of Spokeys......different colour for different size nipples, ie European and Far Eastern.
https://spacycles.co.uk/m13b0s72p1122/RIXEN-KAUL-Spokey
They go right round the nipple and you won't round out nipples with them. Throw away the rounded out nipples (or spokes) you can't tighten spokes enough to ride using pliers.

Buy a book by Jobst Brandt....called something obvious like "Bicycle wheels"

Correcting "out of round" needs a lot of spoke winding......the pitch of the thread is probably less than 1mm, so 1 whole turn won't move the rim 1mm radially.....on spokes from both flanges, obviously.

Many thanks for all that advice Colin. I know you were a wheel builder, so clearly speaking from experience.

1. Yes, I felt some of the spokes "winding up". If I don't correct that by going back again, is it a problem? Am I weakening the spoke, or will it lead to an issue, especially a safety one.

2. When I talked about "marking" the wheel, I meant one bump at a time. I was pretty much doing what you describe. Holding my hand at the "start" and "finish" of the bump. I deliberately changed brake cable tension or cable tie angle so that I was working on the "worst" bump at a time.

3. I was going to leave the wheels for a while, thinking that time/riding would settle them. If that's a thing.

Anyway, for now I'm happy, as I can get far better braking than I could initially. So long as I've not done anything dangerous.

Cheers.

[pwa]

You are at the begining of a process of becoming a wheel mechanic, and it is good that you have decided to have a go. Many people are too nervous or lazy to do that.

If you have wound spokes up, riding will make them unwind. You will hear it as soon as you start off. And some of your truing will be undone. So you will then have to go back to it. I find that when I turn a spoke nipple for the first time, the first bit of rotation is just the spoke twisting, then I feel and hear the threads release, allowing me to make the correction I intend. Some people add lubes to make the process easier.

[slowster]

Roger Musson's electronic book is worth buying. You simply will not get as much insight and information from videos (Park Tool's video on wheelbuilding deliberately omits the most useful information to make people believe that a tensiometer is essential).

For example, to deal with spoke wind up Roger Musson advises placing a small piece of sticky tape on the spoke:

Before turning the wrench make a mental note of the original position of your tape flag and notice if it starts rotating in the same direction as you turn the wrench. This shows that the spoke is twisting rather than the nipple tightening. When the flag stops rotating there is sufficient torsional resistance in the spoke to allow the nipple to turn (relative to the spoke) and thus tighten the spoke. At this point you can turn the wrench the required amount to tighten the spoke. Then release any spoke twist by turning the wrench in the opposite direction until the flag returns to its original position.

The instructions in the book are very clear and there are good illustrations and photographs.

https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

[bikes4two]

Roger Musson's electronic book is worth buying.

The instructions in the book are very clear and there are good illustrations and photographs.

https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

+1 for the e-book. I bought it about 10+ yrs ago, made the simple to build jigs and have never looked back and have toured for 1000s of miles on my diy wheels without issue.

Wheel building isn't a dark art when you have a book like this one to hand.