Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

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TheBomber
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Re: Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

Post by TheBomber »

With Shimano (MTB) hubs those large rubber covers come off fairly easily. However, and this almost certainly came from Brucey, they are also known to be fairly ineffective. It is the inner lip seal on the cone (that the diagram of your hub shows) that is the significant part for keeping the wet out. So even if the outer rubber does get a bit stretched by removal, your hub should still remain sealed.
De Sisti
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Re: Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

Post by De Sisti »

maximus meridius wrote: 5 Jun 2023, 5:58pm So, I thought I had wheel hub adjustment, on cup and cone bearings, nailed. Even made myself a special little, er, thing. To create an axle clamp. Well, it's a piece of angle iron with a hole in it, and some penny washers and the QR.
Pictures would help set the scene. :wink:
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531colin
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

Post by 531colin »

The rubber funnel thing looks exactly like the Shimano one, and I expect it would pull off exactly like the Shimano one as well. Grab the wide end of the rubber thing next to the hub, and see if it will just pull off. You might need to poke a thin screwdriver between the rubber bit and the cone to get the rubber bit over the lip, shown on the diagram, same as Shimano.

assuming you gain access to the left cone and locknut, adjust the bearing preload with the axle under compression from the Q/R as here viewtopic.php?t=143125&start=15
Its not complicated. Lock the right cone really tight. Compress the axle with the Q/R like when the wheel is in the bike.
You want the Q/R lever at the cassette end, with "something" occupying the space thats normally filled by the dropout. That "something" can be a bit of angle iron with a hole in it, a spanner with a hole, or a stack of washers. (Hint....You can't easily grip a stack of washers in the bench vise)
Put 1 or 2 small nuts under the Q/R cone nut, so the Q/R compresses the axle between the right cone locknut and the left axle end. Then adjust the left cone with the axle under compression, ideally holding the thing in the bench vise so you have both hands free.
maximus meridius
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Re: Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

Post by maximus meridius »

Thanks. This is very much a "part time" bike, so I might not get round to looking at this rear hub until I've got other similar jobs to do.
531colin wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 4:17pm The rubber funnel thing looks exactly like the Shimano one, and I expect it would pull off exactly like the Shimano one as well. Grab the wide end of the rubber thing next to the hub, and see if it will just pull off. You might need to poke a thin screwdriver between the rubber bit and the cone to get the rubber bit over the lip, shown on the diagram, same as Shimano.
Thanks, I'll investigate more thoroughly, and carefully, next time. I've got a seal pick, so hopefully can disassemble without damaging the seal.
531colin wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 4:17pm assuming you gain access to the left cone and locknut, adjust the bearing preload with the axle under compression from the Q/R as here viewtopic.php?t=143125&start=15
Its not complicated. Lock the right cone really tight. Compress the axle with the Q/R like when the wheel is in the bike.
You want the Q/R lever at the cassette end, with "something" occupying the space thats normally filled by the dropout. That "something" can be a bit of angle iron with a hole in it, a spanner with a hole, or a stack of washers. (Hint....You can't easily grip a stack of washers in the bench vise)
Put 1 or 2 small nuts under the Q/R cone nut, so the Q/R compresses the axle between the right cone locknut and the left axle end. Then adjust the left cone with the axle under compression, ideally holding the thing in the bench vise so you have both hands free.
I think what I usually do is achieving the same result, though I have the QR lever on the other end, during adjustment.

I'll describe. Imagine that the wheel is horizontal. From bottom to top, I've got:

1. QR nut, screwed onto QR skewer.
2. Angle iron with hole in it, plus some penny washers with a 10 mm hole to pack it out to drop out thickness. The angle iron is clamped in a B&D workmate (the bit at 90 deg to the mounting).
3. Locknut, tightened hard onto...
4. Cone
5. Freehub
6. Hub shell, spokes etc.
7. NDS cone
8. NDS locknut, not tightened together, yet
9. a short length of axle with nothing threaded on it.
10. Some penny washers, with 5mm hole in them
11. The QR lever.

All this means that when I tighten the QR lever, it puts pressure on the end of axle at one end (the end I'm working on) and on the outside face of the locknut (via my angle iron) at the other.

Doing it this way (on m525 hubs) I can feel the slight movement between the dust cap and the hub shell when the QR lever is off, and hopefully feel that movement stop as I gradually tighten the QR level. But the cone and locknut are still available for adjustment, whether the QR is tightened or not.

Yes, I agree, a photo would help, but it's hot, and I don't think I need to do the hubs for a while.
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531colin
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Re: Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

Post by 531colin »

We are in total agreement, except that I have the (small neat) Q/R acorn nut at the end I'm working, in preference to having the (bulky) Q/R lever at the end where I'm working. :wink:
maximus meridius
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Re: Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

Post by maximus meridius »

531colin wrote: 12 Jun 2023, 1:12pm We are in total agreement, except that I have the (small neat) Q/R acorn nut at the end I'm working, in preference to having the (bulky) Q/R lever at the end where I'm working. :wink:
Thanks. Good to know I'm on the right track. I keep thinking of ways of refining this, er, thing. I notice Stein do a product which achieves the same end, I think:

https://steintool.com/portfolio-items/hub-axle-vises/

In fact they do lots of handy bits and pieces. I was half way down the road of making my own freehub flusher, till I saw theirs.

The reason I have the QR at the end I'm working on (NDS, if it's a rear hub) is that I hold one finger over the hub shell/dust cap gap, feeling the movement, then slowly tighten the QR lever, feeling the movement (hopefully) disappear.

One thing I noticed when I did the last one, was that sometimes, as I tightened the locknut down, it would rotate the whole axle. Is there any way of stopping that? 17mm spanner on the other end, somehow?
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531colin
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

Post by 531colin »

Slightly different way of working!
I do the bearing preload adjustment with the Q/R tight, which is enough to stop the axle rotating in my "spanner with a hole in it"

ImageIMG_5341 by 531colin, on Flickr
slowster
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Re: Cup and cone adjustment - the cave man approach

Post by slowster »

Brucey's advice was as follows:
Because the QR load is borne by the LH axle end and not the LH locknut, the LH cone and locknut are readily accessible. When you trial an adjustment, you can snug the locknut down and it'll be much as if the wheel is in a frame with the QR similarly tight.

The fastest adjustment procedure is to finger-tighten the LH cone and then back it off about 1/5th of a turn. Then tighten the locknut and check for free play. This won't be exact but it is rare that you will be more than 1/10th of a turn out. The best adjustment is a tiny bit of free play followed by a further small (1/50th of a turn say) adjustment which removes the free play.
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