Cycling UK Forum

Howdy good people

So I'm after a bike manufactured in Germany by German company that I can only purchase in ...Germany.

I'm thinking of taking a ferry from NCL to AMS, then a ICE train from AMS to that city in Germany. Then I will ride the bike for few days upon my return to the UK. The return route is via ferry again.

Do the "Declare goods and pay tax and duty to UK customs" rules apply even for an used goods?

You know, I will buy the ex-demo bike and ride it for some time so it ain't "new" bike. I will cross the "border" on my bike. And it's for personal use. And I'd had paid German VAT few days before.

I'm looking how to understand / navigate this issue without declaring the goods(?). I like paying taxes and I pay a lot taxes though limited companies I own.

The bike in question is about 4.000 EUR so paying 20% vat and 14% import duty (if I can't prove the bike is made in EU - it has big sticker showing "made in Germany") it's not worth the effort I'm afraid.

ml108 wrote: ↑7 Jun 2023, 11:55am The bike in question is about 4.000 EUR so paying 20% vat and 14% import duty (if I can't prove the bike is made in EU - it has big sticker showing "made in Germany") it's not worth the effort I'm afraid.

I only have a vague idea of the mechanism, but in theory you shouldn't pay VAT twice. The German VAT will be reclaimable, if you and the retailer follow the correct process.

It’s explained pretty clearly in here https://www.gov.uk/bringing-goods-into- ... at-Britain

To me, it looks as if your bike will far exceed in price the personal allowance, so will have to be declared, and will be taxable unless you can demonstrate that it, and all its parts, were “made or grown in the EU”.

Unless, I suppose, you give it as a generous gift to a passing Frenchman, and he then sells it back to you for an amount below the threshold, just before you get on the boat. But, that sounds a bit dodgy.

Could you not buy the bike from the supplier for €1, and buy another bike from them for €3999, but then leave that second bike behind in their shop in perpetuity? Or, better plan, buy a pair of cycling socks for €3999, wear them out, and throw them away before returning to the UK? Again, sounds a bit dodgy.

Welcome.

There's a thread with a lot of useful information:
"Post-Brexit - buying bike parts abroad . . (incl. Rose/DutchBikeParts)":
viewtopic.php?t=142589

That includes how to prove that a bike being brought int the UK wasn't bought abroad.

"Simplified rates for bringing personal goods into the UK":
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/simplified- ... nto-the-uk

I don't think that riding a bike for a few days before entry reduces the requirement to pay import duty.

Jonathan

Edited: Crossed with previous post.

ml108 wrote: ↑7 Jun 2023, 11:55am 14% import duty (if I can't prove the bike is made in EU - it has big sticker showing "made in Germany")

The sticker/label is irrelevant for items worth over £1000. I think you will have to declare it and for it to be exempt, you'll need a "Statement on Origin" aka a certificate of origin from the manufacturer or seller, who needs to be a registered exporter and, presumably, if they were a registered exporter, you wouldn't be travelling there to buy it?

So sorry, yet again, Leave won and you lose.

Aside from the original importing issue. What will happen if you need to make a warranty claim and the manufacturer wants you to send it back for evaluation? Probably better off getting something in the UK.

borisface wrote: ↑7 Jun 2023, 2:19pm Aside from the original importing issue. What will happen if you need to make a warranty claim and the manufacturer wants you to send it back for evaluation?

A bit more bureaucracy but shouldn't be any duty to pay. "Subject to the conditions outlined in the agreement, you can export UK free circulation goods for repair or alteration to the other free trade agreement territory, without applying Customs Duty when importing them back into the UK." says https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-outwa ... -agreement

Probably better off getting something in the UK.

I bet Rees-Mogg wants you for a sunbeam!

Tax avoider that I am, I'd stick on a battered pair of panniers, go through some muddy puddles and would be amazed if challenged getting on a ferry.

OP, there have been a number of threads about the rules post-Brexit. However, I think this one is most relevant to your situation - viewtopic.php?t=148524.

Jdsk wrote: ↑7 Jun 2023, 1:59pm That includes how to prove that a bike being brought int the UK wasn't bought abroad.

Thanks! I will read this that thread for some inspiration.

mjr wrote: ↑7 Jun 2023, 2:09pm The sticker/label is irrelevant for items worth over £1000. I think you will have to declare it and for it to be exempt, you'll need a "Statement on Origin" aka a certificate of origin from the manufacturer or seller, who needs to be a registered exporter and, presumably, if they were a registered exporter, you wouldn't be travelling there to buy it?

Oh crap, I missed that 1k requirement. The bike and its accessories are made in Germany, but I might have hard time proving Shimano hub is also EU made.... I won't have a statement of origin as the bike is from one of their official resellers.

I was planning to declare the bike as bought used, and at a value of few hundred so I pay some tiny tax to stay clear but nothing too dodgy (as the £1 suggested above).

borisface wrote: ↑7 Jun 2023, 2:19pm Aside from the original importing issue. What will happen if you need to make a warranty claim and the manufacturer wants you to send it back for evaluation? Probably better off getting something in the UK.

That's the risk I take and I will live with whatever the outcome. There's nothing like this in the UK otherwise I would not be asking questions here.

roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑7 Jun 2023, 2:34pm Tax avoider that I am, I'd stick on a battered pair of panniers, go through some muddy puddles and would be amazed if challenged getting on a ferry.

That's my plan I will make a little adventure of this trip. Ride the bike in Germany, ride it in Amsterdam, drink nice beers, eat donner kebab, and take plenty of pictures to show off at the customs.

Would it be more legible if I left the UK with a bike too (obviously different bike to what I'll come back on) ??

Get a ferry to Dublin then ride it across the border to Belfast whilst singing rebel songs. Ferry back to Liverpool.

roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑7 Jun 2023, 2:34pm Tax avoider that I am, I'd stick on a battered pair of panniers, go through some muddy puddles and would be amazed if challenged getting on a ferry.

Because you could reclaim one set of vat if doing it legally, it ain't the tax avoiding so much as the smuggling which is likely to cause bigger trouble!