Help with 3 speed Sturmey

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Gentenaar
Posts: 6
Joined: 7 Jun 2023, 3:43pm

Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by Gentenaar »

Hello everyone!
My first post here.
Hope you can help me with this problelm with my 3 speed Sturmey Archer.
It's for a good cause, since I'm restoring a Raleigh Superbe!

The sympthoms:
- everytime I hear a ticking, also when pedaling
- 2nd gear, so normal drive, doesn't work, like the gearbox is in neutral.

Any ideas?
Pawl springs problem? (may explain the ticking?)
Clutch problem? (but 1st and 3rd work...)

Thank you so much for any suggestion!
Carlton green
Posts: 3645
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by Carlton green »

Welcome to the forum.

It may be that your gear cable is mis-adjusted or it not that that you have the wrong indicator rod installed. More expert advice will doubtless be along shortly.

Try looking here: https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/aw.pdf
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Gentenaar
Posts: 6
Joined: 7 Jun 2023, 3:43pm

Re: Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by Gentenaar »

Carlton green wrote: 7 Jun 2023, 4:13pm Welcome to the forum.

It may be that your gear cable is mis-adjusted or it not that that you have the wrong indicator rod installed. More expert advice will doubtless be along shortly.

Try looking here: https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/aw.pdf
Thank you for the advice and the sheet!
I'll look at the ring.
The sheet says that slipping in 2nd may be caused by "Gear ring dogs and/or clutch worn".
I would be able to identify the clutch, and see if it's worn, but what piece is the gear ring in question?
Is it the piece n. 10 of the scheme you attached?
Thank you again, and thanks for any other suggestion!
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mjr
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Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
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Re: Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by mjr »

Gentenaar wrote: 7 Jun 2023, 4:48pm The sheet says that slipping in 2nd may be caused by "Gear ring dogs and/or clutch worn".
It may be, but it's far more likely that the gear cable is slightly too tight and as a result, it is selecting neutral when the shifter shows middle gear. I'd do the cable adjustment shown and then test it. The old AW 3 speed hubs in reality change in sequence 1-2-N-3, but N has no stop on the shifter. It's useful sometimes and unhelpful others. Newer 3 speed hubs (SRF3, X-RD3 and so on) change 1-2-3 (without an intermediate neutral, hence them sometimes being called the NIG hubs, for No Intermediate Gear) but at the cost of a clutch plate which both prevents neutral selection and is put under stress by wheeling backwards in 3 (so try not to do that: I leave the bike in 2 most often so I don't do it unintentionally when pushing the bike out of a parking slot).

If the cable adjustment fails to fix it, I'd select top gear (cable goes slack), disconnect the cable, unscrew and remove the gear rod (aka the indicator), clean it off and check the markings. There's a table somewhere on SheldonBrown.com of which markings are correct for each axle length of AW hub.

Only if that doesn't reveal a problem, then I'd contemplate dismantling the hub to check things like dogs, pawls and clutch.

The ticking in middle and top gears is normal. It is the sound of the low gear cog being overrun. If it gets especially noisy, then the hub is probably low on oil or semi-fluid grease, depending what you use. Remove the filler cap if you have one, or the gear rod if you don't, and inject more, but not too much because the excess will dribble out over time. Weaving a good amount of absorbent paper through the spokes at the bottom of the wheel while parked indoors, and putting a bin bag under it, may protect the floor until all excess has leaked out.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Carlton green
Posts: 3645
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by Carlton green »

Gentenaar wrote: 7 Jun 2023, 4:48pm
Carlton green wrote: 7 Jun 2023, 4:13pm Welcome to the forum.

It may be that your gear cable is mis-adjusted or it not that that you have the wrong indicator rod installed. More expert advice will doubtless be along shortly.

Try looking here: https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/aw.pdf
Thank you for the advice and the sheet!
I'll look at the ring.
The sheet says that slipping in 2nd may be caused by "Gear ring dogs and/or clutch worn".
I would be able to identify the clutch, and see if it's worn, but what piece is the gear ring in question?
Is it the piece n. 10 of the scheme you attached?
Thank you again, and thanks for any other suggestion!
You’re welcome to whatever help I can give you and I’m thankful for MJR’s response which taught me something new - mental note made to leave (store) my (un like your) NIG gear in 2nd, or even 1st gear, and never in 3rd.

Don’t attempt to take the gear apart until all other possibilities have been exhausted. SA AW’s are very robust so the issue is almost certainly outside of the shell. For lubrication I use Singer Sewing Machine Oil (a light and pure general purpose oil) but other folk happily use motor mower oil like SAE 20 (similar to the Singer stuff and what - I found by trawling the web - SA recommended many decades past), or SAE30 which folk happily use. A couple of teaspoonfuls should do the trick but add a bit more and catch the excess as MJR describes.

Good luck.
Last edited by Carlton green on 7 Jun 2023, 5:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
hoogerbooger
Posts: 673
Joined: 14 Jun 2009, 11:27am
Location: In Wales

Re: Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by hoogerbooger »

Excellent advice. Do as mjr says.....then report back.
old fangled
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mjr
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Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
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Re: Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by mjr »

Carlton green wrote: 7 Jun 2023, 5:32pm You’re welcome to whatever help I can give you and I’m thankful for MJR’s response which taught me something new - mental note made to leave (store) my (un like your) NIG gear in 2nd, or even 1st gear, and never in 3rd.
And I really ought to have given credit to oft-missed Brucey for that tip which was implied by his descriptions in posts like viewtopic.php?p=1455072#p1455072
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Gentenaar
Posts: 6
Joined: 7 Jun 2023, 3:43pm

Re: Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by Gentenaar »

Good morning and thank you all!
Problem solved for now, thanks to you.
A very pleasant first posting experience here.
Apparently, there has been an unsolicited replacing of the chain of the gearbox. They put on a different model and I couldn't see the shoulder inside the ring of the nut, indicated as n. 3 in the picture from the sheet. So this morning I made a few attempts and it worked pretty well. Thank you for noticing that the cable was too tight, it was very useful to adjust the tension.
Very happy to be on the forum.
Hope to come back here just for aesthetic problem (such as the bloody rust on the fender...)
Carlton green
Posts: 3645
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Help with 3 speed Sturmey

Post by Carlton green »

Gentenaar wrote: 8 Jun 2023, 11:00am Good morning and thank you all!
Problem solved for now, thanks to you.
A very pleasant first posting experience here.
Apparently, there has been an unsolicited replacing of the chain of the gearbox. They put on a different model and I couldn't see the shoulder inside the ring of the nut, indicated as n. 3 in the picture from the sheet. So this morning I made a few attempts and it worked pretty well. Thank you for noticing that the cable was too tight, it was very useful to adjust the tension.
Very happy to be on the forum.
Hope to come back here just for aesthetic problem (such as the bloody rust on the fender...)
Thank you for coming back to us with your experience, and words of appreciation towards those that try to help are always welcome.

I suggest that you measure the axle length to get a feel for what gear indicator rod should have been fitted to your bike and then see what part has been fitted - getting a correct replacement would be wise (item 36 on the SA drawing and parts list, see Hadland below).
It’s also possible that the gear indicator rod has been poorly fitted too. On my own hubs I very gently screw the rods in - lightly held between my fingers - until they are no longer turning easily and then unscrew them slightly (so that they can turn to align with the tension cable).

For length checking the shelddon brown site is helpful: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/indicators.html
Hadland: https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/aw.pdf
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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