Ebike warranty advice pls - should chain off cause catastrophic damage?

[russrecycles]

Hi, I'm a newbie to the forum and would love some advice please. I have a <6 month old Cube Hybrid ebike bought specifically as n+1 for 3-4 day touring. I love it to bits, but so far it's only clocked a meager 150 miles on a wizz round the Yorks Wolds before the chain came off jamming 100% solid between the chainring and its inner guard, in turn mashing up the entire lower derailleur which now sits at 90 degrees and also a smashed chain guard. I've approached the original dealer for a warranty repair which they are washing their hands of saying it was because the gears probably required tuning causing the chain to dislocate. The manufacturers handbook states that gear adjustment is only necessary if gears aren't operating correctly, thich they were. Surely a chain-off situation shouldn't lead to catastrophic damage of the gearset should they? We are now stuck where the dealer wants me to travel 1.5 hours each way to their nearest shop just so they can have look and decide in addition to all the photos and damage report I have already provided. What also grates is that the dealer has a 'bike promise' where they promise to notify you before the first inspection is due (6 weeks as it turns out) which they didn't. Am I being unreasonable in my dealer expectations, and should I just bite the bullet to pay for repairs at my trusted local bike shop and air my dealer experience via Google and Trustpilot? Thanks

[PT1029]

Any chance of posting photos? A picture paints 1000 words and all that .
If the derailleur is "at 90 degrees", it sounds like a case of the rear gear jamming in the spokes (this would happen when changing into the lowest gear). The chain coming off at the front is more likely to be a consequence of this, not a cause.

The gear is likely to end up in the spokes for 2 reasons.
1. The low gear stop screw was incorrectly set. If that was the case it would have happened before (unless this was the 1st time you used 1st gear). Once mangled it is almost impossible to assess the gear's adjustment - I have managed this occasionally in the past, sometimes in the customer's favour.
2. The rear gear was correctly adjusted, but the gear - or more likely the gear hanger got knocked/bent towards the spokes, so in 1st gear it then went into the spokes. Getting knocked might be careless parking (you or an adjoining bike), the bike fell over, or clumsy packing in the back of a car. No way to prove this once mangled.
Cause 1 above would be shop warranty, cause 2 would not be warranty (it got knocked or bent).
If I was the shop I would be minded towards a cut price repair, or free if my good will was having a good day and the bike was expensive.

[russrecycles]

Thanks PT1029, and sorry bike has 190m not 150m as stated earlier. Not entirely sure how to add photo, perhaps this link might work? https://photos.app.goo.gl/7HyYGKhrVH7LjC5YA I can't imagine the gear was damaged in any way it had given no trouble previously and I had earlier that evening rode 3km to a friends house where the bike sat on its stand in the garden. I had to pull the gear back out of the spokes so I could push it home, so it now looks a little straighter than it did. The problem happened within 100m of setting off (downhill, on road), but would have been 1st as it was an uphill on arrival at the house. Thanks

[Paulkentuk]

"We are now stuck where the dealer wants me to travel 1.5 hours each way to their nearest shop just so they can have look and decide in addition to all the photos and damage report I have already provided.
Am I being unreasonable in my dealer expectations, and should I just bite the bullet to pay for repairs at my trusted local bike shop and air my dealer experience via Google and Trustpilot? Thanks'

Its not clear how you purchased the bike, unless it was mail order ?

I would take the dealer up and take the bike to their shop, there is a chance they will accept the work under warranty then, or you could argue for them to at least meet you 1/2 way on repair price.

The 'promise' service reminder they didn't honour is not really a thing, you should have made a note when the service was due; and you would have had to make that 3 hour round trip for them to do it anyway.

[NickWi]

I think you're going to be pushing your luck with this one. Six months since it's seen a mechanic is way too long for any company to accept responsibility for a 'mechanical'. They don't know how the bikes been ridden, stored, had what leaned against it or how it's been treated. The exception to that is if the mechanical has caused by a product failure. You got a stone stuck in the rear derailleur and everything jammed up, your problem. The jockey wheel collapsed and everything jammed up, their problem. I don't see that you've got much choice but to make the trip and let them examine it. You might not like what they say, but it ain't going to get sorted by sending them photos.

As for them forgetting to remind you that an initial inspection was due and they didn't. Well, the bottom line is, it's your responsibility to call them to get the bike booked in, not theirs to call you. Or maybe as the dealer was 1.5hrs away and everything was running fine, you thought I'll not bother. That's not a personal dig at you, we've all thought, sod it, it'll be okay and 99.9% of the time it is, but whatever reason that made you not have the inspected was yours and you can't hold the dealer responsible for that.

[Cowsham]

If it were me I'd buy a complete new derailier (Google
Shimano Deore RD-M4120-SGS) for about £40 and a new chain -- maybe the chain guard if I can't fix it and fix the bike myself. An awful lot cheaper than the fuel for the 3 hr round trip your going to do to have them tell you they're going to charge Megabucks to fix it. At least if you do it yourself you'll know it's done right.

[Chris Jeggo]

Are any rear wheel spokes damaged? (I can't see any major damage in your photos.) Does the rear wheel run true? If the wheel's OK, I back Cowsham's suggestion.

[Airsporter1st]

If it were me I'd buy a complete new derailier (Google
Shimano Deore RD-M4120-SGS) for about £40 and a new chain -- maybe the chain guard if I can't fix it and fix the bike myself. An awful lot cheaper than the fuel for the 3 hr round trip your going to do to have them tell you they're going to charge Megabucks to fix it. At least if you do it yourself you'll know it's done right.

I agree. I think if the dealer did offer to do it for nothing or at a reduced cost, it would likely only be as a goodwill gesture without admission of liability.

I’m pretty sure there’ll be some mention in the manual of the need for inspection/adjustment within a fairly short period. Unless there is an obvious manufacturing or design defect, routine maintenance such as adjustment of the gears, is generally the responsibility of the owner.

My Orbea Vibe (€3200) required a slight adjustment of the gears to compensate for cable stretch and tweaking of rear spokes, within just a few tens of miles. I did both myself, after having watched a couple of Park Tools videos on YouTube, to refresh my memory, because to me its the owner’s responsibility.

[Cowsham]

Another problem with mid drives I'd never thought about before I saw this. The power comes from the chain so any derailment causes more damage. Like a pro cyclist with strong legs refusing to stop pedaling after the derailment would cause much damage, at least when it's rear hub drive a derailment won't have any more consequence than on a non electric bike.

[UpWrong]

Another problem with mid drives I'd never thought about before I saw this. The power comes from the chain so any derailment causes more damage. Like a pro cyclist with strong legs refusing to stop pedaling after the derailment would cause much damage, at least when it's rear hub drive a derailment won't have any more consequence than on a none electric bike.

Likewise I hadn't thought of this. Another reason to favour hub drives, apart from Occam's razor.

[scottg]

[snip]
Likewise I hadn't thought of this. Another reason to favour hub drives, apart from Occam's razor.

The estimable Golden Sunbeam had a bracket gear and oil bath chain case, but was £1000 in today's money.
https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/1935- ... gentlemen/
And you had to dress properly to ride it.

[bikes4two]

Another problem with mid drives I'd never thought about before I saw this. The power comes from the chain so any derailment causes more damage. Like a pro cyclist with strong legs refusing to stop pedaling after the derailment would cause much damage, at least when it's rear hub drive a derailment won't have any more consequence than on a non electric bike.

I'm not following your argument here in that the OP's chain came off of the chainring and a mid drive motor drives the chain ring, thus if the chain is de-railled off of the chain ring, the chain is not being driven.

I have a TSDZ2 and now and again the chain jumps off the chainwheel (mainly due to my bad gear changing I think). As soon as that happens there is no torque from the pedalling action and I also stop pedalling at which point the power to the motor is terminated.

No chain jam for me and I can't imagine that a mid-drive motor can be blamed for any of the damge reported.

[PH]

Another problem with mid drives I'd never thought about before I saw this. The power comes from the chain so any derailment causes more damage.

I may have misunderstood your point, but the motor cuts the instant you stop pedalling.

[Cowsham]

Another problem with mid drives I'd never thought about before I saw this. The power comes from the chain so any derailment causes more damage. Like a pro cyclist with strong legs refusing to stop pedaling after the derailment would cause much damage, at least when it's rear hub drive a derailment won't have any more consequence than on a non electric bike.

I'm not following your argument here in that the OP's chain came off of the chainring and a mid drive motor drives the chain ring, thus if the chain is de-railled off of the chain ring, the chain is not being driven.

I have a TSDZ2 and now and again the chain jumps off the chainwheel (mainly due to my bad gear changing I think). As soon as that happens there is no torque from the pedalling action and I also stop pedalling at which point the power to the motor is terminated.

No chain jam for me and I can't imagine that a mid-drive motor can be blamed for any of the damge reported.

As someone else pointed out up thread it looks like the chain came off the small sprocket at the cassette first which would make sense cos it's jammed in tight also the rear derailer is twisted. Shouldn't have said "any" derailment just a balls up at the cassette end although ... a chain getting caught in the front derailer could cause significant damage too but most of this seems at the rear derailer

[Cowsham]

Another problem with mid drives I'd never thought about before I saw this. The power comes from the chain so any derailment causes more damage.

I may have misunderstood your point, but the motor cuts the instant you stop pedalling.

Not immediately and my answer to bikes4two might clarify my theory.