Closure of ticket offices

[Psamathe]

The ticket machine is obviously the property of the company running the station at which it is located. A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey. What can differ is that many machines are set up in a way which makes it difficult to find certain options.

"A ticket issued from it has identical validity to a ticket issued by from an online provider or at the booking office for the identical journey."

Transpennine don't accept that. And I did use the machine carefully to avoid this scenario.

My limited experience (literally just a few tickets) purchased through trainline.com the tickets are for a specific train (operator, route, time). Flexible tickets were available but for a dramatically higher price.

But that's just limited personal experience, nothing more.

Ian

[Bmblbzzz]

Again, that's not because you bought them through Trainline, it's because you bought Advance tickets. An Advance ticket is rail marketing speak for a ticket only valid on a specified train at a specified time. It usually has to be bought in advance, but you might get lucky, very occasionally, and buy it on day of travel. In return for these and a few other restrictions, you get a lower (often much, much lower) price. All train operators sell them, on their websites, at machines and even at booking offices. They're not available for every journey though.

[simonhill]

Again, that's not because you bought them through Trainline, it's because you bought Advance tickets. An Advance ticket is rail marketing speak for a ticket only valid on a specified train at a specified time. It usually has to be bought in advance, but you might get lucky, very occasionally, and buy it on day of travel. In return for these and a few other restrictions, you get a lower (often much, much lower) price. All train operators sell them, on their websites, at machines and even at booking offices. They're not available for every journey though.

For longer journeys I often sort out times, etc on Trainline then go to my local station to buy. Giving them time, date, price makes it a lot quicker. Also cheaper as no Trainline charges.

[Bmblbzzz]

Yes, I've sometimes done the same (using the National Rail Enquiries app or site rather than Trainline). Office staff know a lot, but not everything, and it helps to tell them exactly what you want.

[PH]

Office staff know a lot, but not everything, and it helps to tell them exactly what you want.

I treat buying train tickets the same as any other purchase and doing the research usually pays off, trying to do it while stood at a ticket window with a queue behind you won't win many friends, from staff or passengers.
If you turn up at Derby station at 9.30 on a weekday morning and ask for a ticket to London, you'll be asked if you're traveling straight away and if you are they'll probably sell you an anytime ticket for £115. If you're lucky they'll tell you that for the train which arrives twenty minutes later you can buy an off-peak ticket and save £40. If you're very lucky they'll see if there are any advance fares available which would save you £60 but restrict you to a specific train, they won't tell you these are sometimes available on an app later than at the office. There's pretty much no chance they'll look through and work out all the split ticket options for you, which might have saved you up to £70. There's zero chance they'll suggest going via Birmingham, walking five minutes between stations, arriving an hour later than direct and saving you £95.

Rail pricing is a shambles, while it is as it is, I'm not convinced those turning up at a ticket office are being best served. The danger of splitting the transaction - researching online, buying at the station - is there's no guarantee what you've seen will be available. Advance tickets are issued in restricted numbers, when they're gone they'e gone. I also think some are allocated to the resellers. I bought an Advance ticket from Trainline, that hadn't been available at the ticket office ten minutes before.

using the National Rail Enquiries app or site rather than Trainline

I haven't used that in a while, does it show you the split ticket options? Something Trainline has recently started doing.

[Bmblbzzz]

using the National Rail Enquiries app or site rather than Trainline

I haven't used that in a while, does it show you the split ticket options? Something Trainline has recently started doing.

No it does not. I wasn't aware Trainline did. When did it start and does it do this for all journeys (if you know)?

[PH]

using the National Rail Enquiries app or site rather than Trainline

I haven't used that in a while, does it show you the split ticket options? Something Trainline has recently started doing.

No it does not. I wasn't aware Trainline did. When did it start and does it do this for all journeys (if you know)?

I don't know when they started doing it, at least since about Easter, I'd been using GWR but had some issues. There's a pop up on the page after you put in your criteria, an explanation and a symbol to look out for. I don't know if they find every possible option, whenever it hasn't offered me a split, I haven't been able to find one elsewhere. There are still sometimes additional saving to be made by convoluted methods that I wouldn't expect to be offered anywhere, those are outside Trainline's criteria which is on the website.
I know Trainline has it's detractors, luckily I haven't had any problems and those I've seen do sometimes look exaggerated. It's the only one-stop shop I know, tickets, splits and bike reservations, the convenience of that makes it worth the booking fee, though I'm open to suggestions for other services that offer the same. I haven't yet used them for European travel, though The Man in Seat 61 considers them one of the best two.

[Bmblbzzz]

I haven't used that in a while, does it show you the split ticket options? Something Trainline has recently started doing.

No it does not. I wasn't aware Trainline did. When did it start and does it do this for all journeys (if you know)?

I don't know when they started doing it, at least since about Easter, I'd been using GWR but had some issues. There's a pop up on the page after you put in your criteria, an explanation and a symbol to look out for. I don't know if they find every possible option, whenever it hasn't offered me a split, I haven't been able to find one elsewhere. There are still sometimes additional saving to be made by convoluted methods that I wouldn't expect to be offered anywhere, those are outside Trainline's criteria which is on the website.
I know Trainline has it's detractors, luckily I haven't had any problems and those I've seen do sometimes look exaggerated. It's the only one-stop shop I know, tickets, splits and bike reservations, the convenience of that makes it worth the booking fee, though I'm open to suggestions for other services that offer the same. I haven't yet used them for European travel, though The Man in Seat 61 considers them one of the best two.

Useful info, thanks.

[mjr]

I know Trainline has it's detractors, luckily I haven't had any problems and those I've seen do sometimes look exaggerated.

For completeness, the reported problem with Trainline's splitting is that it doesn't make it clear enough when tickets involved in the split are booked-train-only "Advance" tickets, which you really ought to get endorsed (opened to allow any train) if you are delayed earlier in the journey, which has resulted in people being penalised or reported for prosecution.

It's the only one-stop shop I know, tickets, splits and bike reservations, the convenience of that makes it worth the booking fee, though I'm open to suggestions for other services that offer the same.

Doesn't any train-company-branded version of Trainline (LNR, for example) offer the same, without the booking fee? It seems like abuse of a dominant market position if they're keeping some features only for their customer-charging version.

I haven't yet used them for European travel, though The Man in Seat 61 considers them one of the best two.

Trainline can't sell lots of the best European train tickets, but that's not solely their fault. "All of them perform hilariously badly."

[Bmblbzzz]

It's the only one-stop shop I know, tickets, splits and bike reservations, the convenience of that makes it worth the booking fee, though I'm open to suggestions for other services that offer the same.

Doesn't any train-company-branded version of Trainline (LNR, for example) offer the same, without the booking fee? It seems like abuse of a dominant market position if they're keeping some features only for their customer-charging version.

I'm sure they will sell you split tickets, if you know where and when to split, but neither operators nor NRE suggest splits. Of course you can always use Trainline to plan and then buy from another site, avoiding the booking fee.

I haven't yet used them for European travel, though The Man in Seat 61 considers them one of the best two.

Trainline can't sell lots of the best European train tickets, but that's not solely their fault. "All of them perform hilariously badly."

"Can't even find Warsaw or Budapest." That's beyond hilariously badly to ludicrously awful!

[PH]

It's the only one-stop shop I know, tickets, splits and bike reservations, the convenience of that makes it worth the booking fee, though I'm open to suggestions for other services that offer the same.

Doesn't any train-company-branded version of Trainline (LNR, for example) offer the same, without the booking fee? It seems like abuse of a dominant market position if they're keeping some features only for their customer-charging version.

Just looked - The £30.65 ticket I have for Glasgow next week, booked a couple of weeks ago and still available on Trainline, is £95.80 on LNR, I didn't bother looking at bike reservations.

For completeness, the reported problem with Trainline's splitting is that it doesn't make it clear enough when tickets involved in the split are booked-train-only "Advance" tickets, which you really ought to get endorsed (opened to allow any train) if you are delayed earlier in the journey, which has resulted in people being penalised or reported for prosecution.

I think that's true of all the split ticket providers, the choice is to DIY or have a proper look at what you've bought. Wherever you buy them, the tickets themselves will have printed on them what they are, that's always been my experience anyway. Yes I know this is extra faff, but the existence of split ticketing is absurd anyway. I've only had one issue with a split journey, nothing to do with Trainline, all trains to the split station were cancelled, I got the through train and suggested to the ticket inspector that doubling back should be a permitted route in the circumstances. They weren't happy about it, I declined to buy a new ticket, offered ID for them to follow up, they said they'd return and didn't. My experience of railway staff has been good, for every jobsworth I've come across, there's been a dozen who've gone out of their way to be helpful.

[mjr]

For completeness, the reported problem with Trainline's splitting is that it doesn't make it clear enough when tickets involved in the split are booked-train-only "Advance" tickets, which you really ought to get endorsed (opened to allow any train) if you are delayed earlier in the journey, which has resulted in people being penalised or reported for prosecution.

I think that's true of all the split ticket providers, the choice is to DIY or have a proper look at what you've bought. Wherever you buy them, the tickets themselves will have printed on them what they are, that's always been my experience anyway.

None of the other providers are seeing prosecutions reported at anything like a similar rate. This may be simple weight of numbers or it may be that the other providers like Trainsplit are making it clearer when tickets are fixed. "Printed on them" is so cute and old-fashioned now that e-tickets work for most not-crossing-London journeys.

Yes I know this is extra faff, but the existence of split ticketing is absurd anyway.

Fully agree.

I've only had one issue with a split journey, nothing to do with Trainline, all trains to the split station were cancelled, I got the through train and suggested to the ticket inspector that doubling back should be a permitted route in the circumstances. They weren't happy about it, I declined to buy a new ticket, offered ID for them to follow up, they said they'd return and didn't.

I think you got lucky there. I'm fairly sure that you should have got your tickets endorsed before boarding the through train (else the train company would have had to send you by road to the split station and then the next one, which is obviously absurd because it would cost them more and probably delay you to the point of getting the whole journey price refunded), else you didn't show a valid ticket on demand and then refusing to buy a new ticket upgraded the offence to intent to avoid the correct fare.

[PH]

Wherever you buy them, the tickets themselves will have printed on them what they are, that's always been my experience anyway.

None of the other providers are seeing prosecutions reported at anything like a similar rate. This may be simple weight of numbers or it may be that the other providers like Trainsplit are making it clearer when tickets are fixed. "Printed on them" is so cute and old-fashioned now that e-tickets work for most not-crossing-London journeys.

Cute
Most of my rail travel requires bike reservations and E-tickets are not an option for them. The paper tickets and reservations are the same wherever I've bought them. I do tend to collect and check the day before, though it's no inconvenience for me to do so, I pass the station daily, usually several times.
The Trainline booking confirmation makes the ticket type clear, my latest is a combination of Advance and Super Off-Peak. I appreciate that not everyone will understand the difference and implications in the event of something going wrong. I can't see why that would apply more to tickets from Trainline than anywhere else. Upthread there's some confusion about tickets bought from a ticket office. I think the blame lies with the shambles of a ticket system rather than Trainline.

[mjr]

"Printed on them" is so cute and old-fashioned now that e-tickets work for most not-crossing-London journeys.

Cute
Most of my rail travel requires bike reservations and E-tickets are not an option for them.

I rarely use reserved-bike services, so can't comment on what's currently an option for those. Except for the few requiring a reservation tag on the bike (Avanti? Scotrail?), I think an E-ticket should be possible.

The paper tickets and reservations are the same wherever I've bought them.

Congratulations on avoiding so-called "bogroll" and credit-card-sized barcode tickets so far!

I can't see why that would apply more to tickets from Trainline than anywhere else.

Apparently the wording and layout of the ticket is now pretty flexible as long as it stays within certain parameters: that's why we have both bogroll and credit-card-size barcode tickets. Trainline were putting the ticket restrictions only in the "label" free text field on e-tickets, while other retailers including Raileasy put "Advance" in the "Ticket Type" field and any restrictions in the "Route" field.

Upthread there's some confusion about tickets bought from a ticket office. I think the blame lies with the shambles of a ticket system rather than Trainline.

Agreed. It's a real mess, but Rail Delivery Group and friends running a shambles and letting Trainline get away with bad things, it doesn't excuse Trainline also making a hash of things.

[PH]

Upthread there's some confusion about tickets bought from a ticket office. I think the blame lies with the shambles of a ticket system rather than Trainline.

Agreed. It's a real mess, but Rail Delivery Group and friends running a shambles and letting Trainline get away with bad things, it doesn't excuse Trainline also making a hash of things.

We could go round and round forever on this one, I can only speak from my own experience, I don't frequent any space where I hear lots of Trainline complaints. I can easily see the type of ticket with a Trainline booking, it's on the booking screen before purchase, it's on the order confirmation and it's on the cute paper tickets. It makes no difference how prominent it is If someone doesn't know the relevance and IMO that's the issue.
We also need to keep it in perspective. How many times do you have serious issues with rail travel? I can't remember having more than half a dozen, and that includes the train I was on breaking down and no trains due to flooding, I've only once failed to get home on the right day and that's from a sample of several thousand. I've never been evicted from a train, I've never been refused travel, I've never had to pay any penalty or supplement...