Cycling UK Forum

PH wrote: ↑9 Jul 2023, 3:30pm Most of this joy seems to come from the state of mind rather than the gearing. I like to mix it up, but a good bit of my cycling is pootling along and I have a bike more suited to that than my others. OTOH, I know 3-speed riders who ride like they've something to prove, I don't know who too, like with most cycling, others are less interested in what you do than you think they are.

H’mm, well joy does come through state of mind and state of mind is effected by what we have around us and how well we then manage what’s around us.

Is there a philosophy or two - or more - for getting the most joy out of a three speed hub? Well, I rather think that, as illustrated in earlier posts, there are mindsets that that either hinder or help one extract joy from using the three speed hub, just as there are for cycling in general. For me one ‘discovery’ was contentment in slow speed up hill cycling, just select that low gear and don’t rush but instead push the peddles both gently and at your normal cadence - and if the pedals are getting hard to push then walk. Don’t go chasing either speed or higher cadence, be easy on yourself instead.

Whatever the gearing there is always some rider who has something to prove either to themselves or their club mates. If it makes them happy and doesn’t overly upset others then there’s surely not too much harm in what they do. If I wanted to then I could ride with a club and I could take my SA AW there, it wouldn’t be ideal but I’d very likely get by. Of course one proud benefit of club riding with a three speed is the pride, joy even, of completing the day’s ‘challenge’ on a lesser machine than your club mates. Arguably only the fittest and best of the group could manage such a feat … whatever floats your boat, etc.

rjb wrote: ↑9 Jul 2023, 6:09pm

For the four speeds, we are stuck with the SA item which requires a bit of technique to select first.

My grip shift is still working well with my 4 speed FW. I've marked the positions with a dab of idiot ink (Tippex).

viewtopic.php?t=156646#p1778504

Interesting.
Thinking out of the box (can?).

Happy epicycling, aficionados !

Carlton green wrote: ↑9 Jul 2023, 5:31pm

mjr wrote: ↑9 Jul 2023, 2:52pm

Carlton green wrote: ↑9 Jul 2023, 11:08am[...] and the trigger control with its instant action [...]

Does no-one else have a delay between the trigger click into top and the gear actually shifting? Do I need a new spring in the hub?

Biospace wrote: ↑9 Jul 2023, 1:51pm [...]
I doubt an additional gear would have improved journey time by more than five minutes,[...]

You've probably saved more than those five minutes many times over with the reduced maintenance and not faffing about trimming the indexing to align 9 or more gears at once.

The hub that I’m using is a one of the later ones with an alloy shell, so likely made in Taiwan. I have a few spare hubs of the older type, one even built into a spare wheel, and would guess that over decades of use the springs would weaken. The bearings have grease in them but the gears run in lots of light oil, grease can slow movement down so if the spring is weak …

Oh yes. I run my hubs in semi fluid grease. The cable responds fast enough. I guess it just takes a bit of a revolution to smoosh the grease out of the way and engage fully.

3 speeds are lovely to ride. they remind me of hot summer days as a child when i have some issue or other with my own bike but didn't want to waste the day fixing it and took my sister's bike instead. then i found out that i could go much faster on that than my own and tended to stick with it

mig wrote: ↑10 Jul 2023, 11:00am 3 speeds are lovely to ride. they remind me of hot summer days as a child when i have some issue or other with my own bike but didn't want to waste the day fixing it and took my sister's bike instead. then i found out that i could go much faster on that than my own and tended to stick with it

This weekend I was running late for a local concert and didn't want any oil finding its way onto a linen suit so took the bike with a fully enclosed chaincase, a early 80s Holland Sport Olympia with hub brakes and SA 3sp. It's a spare bike, for visitors and emergencies and is quite neglected and un-shiny apart from the s/s rims, but rides beautifully. One winter it was used as the daily transport, it's the only one I don't mind riding on wet, gritted roads and through salty puddles. I think the chain was oiled about 6 years ago.

A couple of fully kitted out road cyclists heading the other way looked quite startled - they were youngish and clearly had never imagined a traditional bike being ridden actively, let alone by someone in suit and tie with a large leather bag on the rack. The gearing is longer than most trad British 3sp cycles, so with the slightest hint of a down gradient and gentle tailwind, it was probably over 20mph. The only problem, the number of thunderbugs I'd collected.

The couple of posts above nicely capture some parts of the joy of three speed riding. In those cases it’s about the joy of something reliable, working and capable just being available to sit on and peddle away on at either a moments notice or in some months time - of course you might like to check that there’s air in the tyres before setting off. There’s no question about a SA AW working or not, no worries or thinking required, it’s simply jump on the bike and cover some distance.

Similarly in cold and /or snowy weather there’s no question of frozen freewheel pawls (due to water ingress, etc) and no freewheels choked with snow. Now admittedly I’ve had neither issue ‘cause I’m fastidious about maintenance and wouldn’t ride in really poor weather, but the joy of the three speed is that you can push the limits, cover some ground and do so without concern. I find joy in the simple reliability of the SA AW, there’s no need to either watch out for or worry about mechanical failure so you can just jump on your bike and get on with your life instead.

Does anyone remember the story of the Tortoise and the Hare? I think that there are similarities here …

Carlton green wrote: ↑11 Jul 2023, 10:24pm Does anyone remember the story of the Tortoise and the Hare? I think that there are similarities here …

Over several rides with a pal who generally prefers Raleighs which were made pre-1970, there didn't appear to be much performance difference at all compared with a light-ish, multi-geared bike. Concerned with my levels of fitness, we swapped machines and in gently undulating conditions found it was only over 15mph where the gap started to open up, mostly due to aerodynamics. On a relentless climb heading North to Ravenglass on the old track bed, there was nothing in it.

Biospace wrote: ↑12 Jul 2023, 1:21pm

Carlton green wrote: ↑11 Jul 2023, 10:24pm Does anyone remember the story of the Tortoise and the Hare? I think that there are similarities here …

Over several rides with a pal who generally prefers Raleighs which were made pre-1970, there didn't appear to be much performance difference at all compared with a light-ish, multi-geared bike. Concerned with my levels of fitness, we swapped machines and in gently undulating conditions found it was only over 15mph where the gap started to open up, mostly due to aerodynamics. On a relentless climb heading North to Ravenglass on the old track bed, there was nothing in it.

To my mind that’s a very valid and interesting insight, thank you.

I perhaps miss-out on the latest and greatest developments in cycling but as today’s must haves are so often soon forgotten my philosophy is to stick with tried and tested solutions. As such I tend to look to the past for classics that worked well in their day and that were only set aside for either marginal gains or the sake of fashion. To my mind the SA AW was once the gearing of choice and lost that position due to the advantages of perfectly maintained and set-up derailleur gears. I can’t argue with it, in terms of sporting performance and outright capability (gear ratio range) it’s jolly hard to beat a decent derailleur set-up … but IMHO such advantages come with drawbacks too and who really needs (has necessity for) that much sporting performance and ‘capability’ on their daily ride?

Currently my SA AW gearing is set to give me gears of 57”, 43” and 32”, it’s set that low so that I can haul my terrier around. My usual comfortable cadence in top gear would, by my calculations, see me doing nearly 11 mph. If I raised the gearing by 10% (the dog easily weighs more that that proportion of my mass) and rode the bike solo then I’d do nearly 12 mph pulling a 63” gear. My estimation is that that low top gear would be used for 90% plus of the time around here and around here isn’t particularly flat - so I’d have a respectable average speed and a readily sustainable one too.

So to put it another way gears of 63”, 47” and 35” can get you all over the place at a useful rate of progress and those gear ratios can be supplied both by derailleur gears and in the always works arrangement commonly known as the Sturmey Archer AW Hub Gear. Always works and also gives you just the gears ratios that you actually need (well with a bit of thought pretty much so), surely that ‘three in a can’ should have ‘JOY’ embossed on its side rather than SA AW … which sort of brings me back to ‘the joy of three speed riding’ and the comparison above .

rjb wrote: ↑7 Jul 2023, 8:20pm my Moulton 4 speed fw and 3 speed kingpin and twenty are set up with gears which span on average 34-62 inches.

These must be the golden ratios for everyday use in comfort.

rjb wrote: ↑13 Jul 2023, 6:53am

rjb wrote: ↑7 Jul 2023, 8:20pm my Moulton 4 speed fw and 3 speed kingpin and twenty are set up with gears which span on average 34-62 inches.

These must be the golden ratios for everyday use in comfort.

Spot on!

grufty wrote: ↑13 Jul 2023, 7:29am

rjb wrote: ↑13 Jul 2023, 6:53am

rjb wrote: ↑7 Jul 2023, 8:20pm my Moulton 4 speed fw and 3 speed kingpin and twenty are set up with gears which span on average 34-62 inches.

These must be the golden ratios for everyday use in comfort.

Spot on!

Well what do you know, mine are set at 32.7, 43.6, 58.1, great minds.....

rjb wrote: ↑13 Jul 2023, 6:53am

rjb wrote: ↑7 Jul 2023, 8:20pm my Moulton 4 speed fw and 3 speed kingpin and twenty are set up with gears which span on average 34-62 inches.

These must be the golden ratios for everyday use in comfort.

I believe I've said before, when bikes were used for commuting by hundreds of thousands of people, these things were perfected and had to be right. Comfort, reliability, ease of use, practicality, longevity and support. Providing products for a leisure market creates a lot of features which are designed to appeal to people's dreams rather than necessities and are targeted at increasingly small niches.

Carlton green wrote: ↑13 Jul 2023, 12:19am ...my philosophy is to stick with tried and tested solutions. As such I tend to look to the past for classics that worked well in their day and that were only set aside for either marginal gains or the sake of fashion

With wine, furniture and so much more this is how good products find their way to long-lasting desirability. Products spent thousands of years evolving up to the C20th, when sales and marketing departments conspired to adjust progress to what best suited large companies.

With cars and bicycles people believe the laws of physics can be significantly bent, to the point a 20 year old product is seen as uselessly out of date. Manufacturers work as hard as they can to pretend every year's "improvements" make their product better - more often than not a great design emerges every 20 or 30 years or so and everyone else copies it, slowly eroding what was great about the original until another great product cuts through the years of accumulated nonsense.

A good part of the perceived benefit in a £6,000 bicycle is in the mind of the purchaser, as it is with a £60,000 car. With a little careful research and practical working knowledge, it's possible to spend a fraction of these sums to enjoy an equally good experience and levels of ability, such is the depreciation these sales and marketing people bring on their products.

Much as I appreciate old Raleighs, I was surprised that I was all but unable to much outpace my friend on a long drag, or he me when we swapped rides (my bike was a 11kg steel Marin BVSE). The only occasion I found myself waiting was after a long, stony downhill section where a combination of larger tyres and more powerful brakes allowed me to rattle along much more quickly.

Carlton green wrote: ↑13 Jul 2023, 12:19am To my mind the SA AW was once the gearing of choice and lost that position due to the advantages of perfectly maintained and set-up derailleur gears. I can’t argue with it, in terms of sporting performance and outright capability (gear ratio range) it’s jolly hard to beat a decent derailleur set-up … but IMHO such advantages come with drawbacks too and who really needs (has necessity for) that much sporting performance and ‘capability’ on their daily ride?

It's not so much the joy of 3 speed, any number of hub gears is acceptable. The joy comes with the escape from the drawbacks of derailleur gears.

If three gears are not enough or too closely spaced, ride Rohloff. My wife and I have these. They are very simple to use with 14 evenly spaced gears operated in one sequence by a ring or (for me) two levers: up and down. I never know which gear I am in - always the right one. My wife is not now defeated by complex derailleur double-changes at the foot of steep hills - she rides up them.

Another huge advantage of hub gears is in town: you can change when stopped. Stopping unexpectedly and wild changes of speed are frequent in town.

Another thing: you can use an effective chainguard to keep oil in and muck out. The chain lasts much longer and so do your trousers. We have Hebie chaingliders. You can also use an oil-free belt drive.

In the voluntary bike workshop I help out at in Düsseldorf almost all the bikes we see are town bikes and most have hub gears and a chainguard. It's just normal here. Britain is an outlier.

Ron wrote: ↑13 Jul 2023, 6:46pm It's not so much the joy of 3 speed, any number of hub gears is acceptable. The joy comes with the escape from the drawbacks of derailleur gears.

H’mm, well yes and no . When I started the thread I really didn’t want it to be ‘banging the drum’ that the SA AW is the best form of gearing but rather to celebrate, share and enjoy what’s good about them.