Cycling UK Forum

plancashire wrote: ↑13 Jul 2023, 9:29pm If three gears are not enough or too closely spaced, ride Rohloff. My wife and I have these. They are very simple to use with 14 evenly spaced gears operated in one sequence by a ring or (for me) two levers: up and down. I never know which gear I am in - always the right one. My wife is not now defeated by complex derailleur double-changes at the foot of steep hills - she rides up them.

Ah yes, there’s the three speed hub gear and then there’s the ‘improvements’ on it. When I started the thread I really didn’t want it to be ‘banging the drum’ that the SA AW is the best form of either gearing or hub gearing (it’s arguably not and that’s a minefield of debate) but instead I wanted to celebrate, share and enjoy what’s good about them - of which, IMHO, there is much.

As an aside my wife too really never got her head around derailleur gears with multiple chainrings and her bike has ended up with one of the younger generation. In her younger days she rode a three speed SA, it was just a transport tool to her and eventually someone stole it. As a broad brush conclusion, and without intentionally being ‘ist’ in any way, I’m of the opinion that for new cyclists hub gears are often noticeably easier for them to use than some derailleur gears. Simplicity in use, that’s one of the joys of three speed riding .

Prior to my SA AW I used a Sach five speed hub gear and was delighted with it; unfortunately Sach is no more so such gears and their spare parts are obsolete, and ultimately you have to work with what you can get. So what’s available now? Well Shimano and Rohloff sell good hub gears that some folk love. Are they better than say the SA AW? H’mm, well they’re better in some ways but let’s no argue about that but rather recall what the thread’s all about: the joy of three speed riding.

So what’s both particularly joyous about the SA AW and hasn’t really been raised much before in this thread? Well, with that in mind:
# The SA AW fits into the frames that I (already) have; something that slots into narrow dropouts (120mm in my case) gives me joy and the other available hub gears mentioned are too wide to fit.
# A second hand SA AW plus cables and controls can be bought for around £25 (so affordable to virtually all) and parts are readily available too .
# I am / we are able to strip, check over and generally maintain an SA AW using basic skills and simple tools .
# For lubrication my SA AW doesn’t require anything special, basically lubricant costs are counted in pennies and nearly anything available will do .

So as anyone could see there’s much to be joyful about, well once one discovers that these things can - and indeed do - provide a very practical gearing arrangement … and, of course, reading the earlier posts highlights their many other joys too. A list of its many pluses would be lengthy .

Do other gearing arrangements offer joy too? Well for some people and for some of the time they do and what’s not to like about that? After serval iterations I’m very pleased with the derailleur gearing that I now have on one of my bikes. On the other hand, as the original poster and in this thread, I’m just celebrating what joy the simple and humble three speed hub gear has both brought to and brings to countless numbers of cyclists .

My first bike was a Raleigh of some sort with SA three speed. I used to take it apart to see how it worked and check for wear. It worked well and didn't wear - I oiled it. The next few bikes had derailleur gears but I suppose I missed the old 3-speed and was reminded of it on my Brompton, which led to the Rohloff I wrote about before. My wife before I met her rode around London on a BSA SA commuting to work. She was also derailed until returning to hub gears like me.

Compared with the typical Sachs 3-speed, the SA has simpler alignment: get the flat end of the rod level with the axle seen through the hole in the nut. The Sachs has a guess-and-miss approach, and no lockring to remember the guess when you remove the wheel.

plancashire wrote: ↑15 Jul 2023, 4:38pm My first bike was a Raleigh of some sort with SA three speed. I used to take it apart to see how it worked and check for wear. It worked well and didn't wear - I oiled it. The next few bikes had derailleur gears but I suppose I missed the old 3-speed and was reminded of it on my Brompton, which led to the Rohloff I wrote about before. My wife before I met her rode around London on a BSA SA commuting to work. She was also derailed until returning to hub gears like me.

Compared with the typical Sachs 3-speed, the SA has simpler alignment: get the flat end of the rod level with the axle seen through the hole in the nut. The Sachs has a guess-and-miss approach, and no lockring to remember the guess when you remove the wheel.

Although historical that’s a nice example of young folk just getting about and getting on with their transport needs using old fashioned bikes with three speed hubs.

It struck me that a further joy of three speed riding is that it’s well used and long established gateway to using hub gears . Of course one does not have to proceed beyond the gateway, but if you can afford and have the application for it then hub gears with more ratios are available. Indeed, I went partway down the enhancement route with a five speed Sach …

Talking of the sadly obsolete Sach reminds me of a further joy of the three speed hub. When I reverted to a SA AW from the five speed Sach the three speed hub turned out to be - admittedly after a bit of thought and care - a rather good plan ‘b’ or sound fall back option .

The thread’s now ten days old and four pages long; it’s likely that it’s run its course. As the OP I offer my thanks to all of the other posters who have contributed to the thread.

Carlton green wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 8:04am When I started the thread I really didn’t want it to be ‘banging the drum’ that the SA AW is the best form of either gearing or hub gearing (it’s arguably not and that’s a minefield of debate) but instead I wanted to celebrate, share and enjoy what’s good about them - of which, IMHO, there is much.

-8<--

So what’s available now? Well Shimano and Rohloff sell good hub gears that some folk love. Are they better than say the SA AW? H’mm, well they’re better in some ways but let’s no argue about that but rather recall what the thread’s all about: the joy of three speed riding.

Comparing a Rohloff and a SA three speed is quite a stretch... the cost difference alone puts them in a completely different class of system.

I've really enjoyed the simplicity, and friendly ticking, that comes from an SA 3 speed (and the 5 speed, double toggle chain hub)
I also enjoy the range and reliability (most of which probably comes from the internal indexing) from the Rohloff - but I'm not going to swap between them on any vehicle I own, they're just different.

[XAP]Bob wrote: ↑17 Jul 2023, 1:47pm

Carlton green wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 8:04am When I started the thread I really didn’t want it to be ‘banging the drum’ that the SA AW is the best form of either gearing or hub gearing (it’s arguably not and that’s a minefield of debate) but instead I wanted to celebrate, share and enjoy what’s good about them - of which, IMHO, there is much.

-8<--

So what’s available now? Well Shimano and Rohloff sell good hub gears that some folk love. Are they better than say the SA AW? H’mm, well they’re better in some ways but let’s no argue about that but rather recall what the thread’s all about: the joy of three speed riding.

Comparing a Rohloff and a SA three speed is quite a stretch... the cost difference alone puts them in a completely different class of system.

I've really enjoyed the simplicity, and friendly ticking, that comes from an SA 3 speed (and the 5 speed, double toggle chain hub)
I also enjoy the range and reliability (most of which probably comes from the internal indexing) from the Rohloff - but I'm not going to swap between them on any vehicle I own, they're just different.

Yes, aside from being hub gears they’re very different and not usefully comparable. In the thread I tried to neither compare or contrast the three speed hub with anything else but rather to say these features - of which there are many - bring joy. I used my three speed bike this morning; I didn’t go far, just a few miles, but they were miles with smiles as I enjoyed its simple operation, reliability and easy utility … .

I have seen instructions for converting a SA three speed to fixed. I believe one such was manufactured too. Has anybody experience of either?

Mike Sales wrote: ↑17 Jul 2023, 2:55pm I have seen instructions for converting a SA three speed to fixed. I believe one such was manufactured too. Has anybody experience of either?

I don't know if these are the right sort of hub, but:

Brucey:
viewtopic.php?p=1121009#p1121009

Sheldon Brown:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/awfixed.html

Jonathan

Carlton green wrote: ↑17 Jul 2023, 2:47pm Yes, aside from being hub gears they’re very different and not usefully comparable. In the thread I tried to neither compare or contrast the three speed hub with anything else but rather to say these features - of which there are many - bring joy. I used my three speed bike this morning; I didn’t go far, just a few miles, but they were miles with smiles as I enjoyed its simple operation, reliability and easy utility … .

They're friendly too - the tick of the pawls overrunning has always been a comfortable sound.
Not sure I get that same cheery noise from the R - but then it's usually spinning a whole lot faster!

Jdsk wrote: ↑17 Jul 2023, 3:08pm I don't know if these are the right sort of hub, but:

Brucey:
viewtopic.php?p=1121009#p1121009

Sheldon Brown:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/awfixed.html

Jonathan

Ta.

[XAP]Bob wrote: ↑17 Jul 2023, 4:08pm They're friendly too - the tick of the pawls overrunning has always been a comfortable sound.

Though it’s not thought about - it’s just an accepted sound - your observation is, I think, very true. As we cycle along the quiet and steady ticking of the pawls is, for many - me included - a comfortable, familiar and reassuring sound; assuming that it can be heard above the background noise of passing cars, etc. We find joy in comfortable, familiar and reassuring things .

The point has been briefly mentioned in this topic, that typically a bike with a SA 3sp will be a one which is highly practical and designed for easy use, with laid back geometries, longevity, sensible handlebars, perhaps an older style and highly effective bell, a chainguard and paint finish which is durable.

The sort of bike which will invariably work no matter how long it's been sandwiched behind others at the back of your storage space, or even if left out in all weathers if the chain is fully-enclosed. There's little chance of it attracting the eyes of thieves, even if left for days in a public place with the most minimal lock. These are qualities which are often overlooked, but possibly more important than we believe.

Biospace wrote: ↑18 Jul 2023, 10:04am The point has been briefly mentioned in this topic, that typically a bike with a SA 3sp will be a one which is highly practical and designed for easy use, with laid back geometries, longevity, sensible handlebars, perhaps an older style and highly effective bell, a chainguard and paint finish which is durable.

The sort of bike which will invariably work no matter how long it's been sandwiched behind others at the back of your storage space, or even if left out in all weathers if the chain is fully-enclosed. There's little chance of it attracting the eyes of thieves, even if left for days in a public place with the most minimal lock. These are qualities which are often overlooked, but possibly more important than we believe.

IIRC Brucey did just that with some of his bikes and part of what he rode around on - and (fitness) trained on - included SA AW three speed bikes. Whilst I wouldn’t store a bike under a hedge like him he proved it could be done, well all the gears are in the can so safe from the weather and other stuff.

Attractive to thieves; well I work on the principle that a Mixte with three speed hub gears has virtually zero attraction to thieves and happily leave my bike all over the place with just a simple chain and padlock (to deter the village idiot). Of course folk do steal bikes and a (stolen) three speed might well be bought later by a student who just needs something to take them from the lodgings to lectures and back - cheap and simple point and shoot transport. In her student days my wife had her shopper (three speed, small wheel) stolen from her back garden, it had got her about but the concept of maintenance was lost on her - too busy zipping along and with getting on with life.

In my part of the world, a decent range of gears is a must, unless you have very strong legs and a powerful pair of lungs. Hills are a fact of life here. They can go on for miles, too.

But I have often considered the simplicity and purity of a fixed wheel single speed bike. I love the way it looks, the lack of clutter, and the near complete rejection of the need to fret about cassettes, mechs, gear levers and cables. Just one ring and one sprocket, job done, get on and ride.

Then I return to the reality of life in Wales, with our named hill climbs, and I think about my knees and accept that I do want a gear in the low twenties (inches) sometimes, and I don't want to be riding that gear on the flat as well. I know I can get off and walk, but I love the simplicity of rding, without on-off interuptions for hills, just cruising over every rise in the road. And the fact is that my gears are so familiar to me that my hands change gear almost without me thinking.

I love the idea of a fixed single speed but I know it would never get used if I had one.

Carlton green wrote: ↑6 Jul 2023, 11:04pm Is there anyone else out there savouring the simple joys of three speed riding?

My Brom is a 3. I tried the six (which is a 3 speed hub with two-position derailleur) but it struck me as extra faff I'd sooner do without on that bike.

But the Brom is a bit limiting around Dundee, which has Proper Hills and I live on a fairly steep one, so my usual hack is a Moulton TSR. I still like hub gears though, so that has a Sturmey 8 rather than a 3.

Pete.

When I was 12 I had a bike with a 3 speed Benelux derailleur, it even had a toggle chain. Did that meet teh criteria for three speed riding?