Cycling UK Forum

I got caught cycling through a red light on my bike (left turn across an empty pedestrian crossing but fair enough I broke the law). The officer who stopped me said I would receive a £50 fine and no points on my license…I’ve now received a letter saying it’s £100 and 3 points on my license. Surely you can’t get points on your driving license for a cycling offence ? Can’t find definitive information on this though. Does anyone have any experience this?

I'm not a lawyer, but here's the answer from someone who is
https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default ... 901055.pdf

My understanding of that is you wouldn't get points for a cycling offence, but you can be disqualified for non motoring offences. If I'd received that letter, I'd be questioning it with the issuer.

No experience, but I've read that the courts can use licence points as a penalty for all sorts of crimes - mainly low-level stuff in practice.

(It's a bit liek a restrain order ... the judge uses discretion to impose something appropriate.)

Anyway; yes, it is a thing!

X-post:

PH wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 2:04pm I'm not a lawyer, but here's the answer from someone who is
https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default ... 901055.pdf

My understanding of that is you wouldn't get points for a cycling offence, but you can be disqualified for non motoring offences. If I'd received that letter, I'd be questioning it with the issuer.

I read that article differently - it is UNLIKELY you'd get points. IANAL either!

mattheus wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 2:16pm X-post:

PH wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 2:04pm I'm not a lawyer, but here's the answer from someone who is
https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default ... 901055.pdf

My understanding of that is you wouldn't get points for a cycling offence, but you can be disqualified for non motoring offences. If I'd received that letter, I'd be questioning it with the issuer.

I read that article differently - it is UNLIKELY you'd get points. IANAL either!

Well, I put the link so people could read it and reach their own interpretation, it's also possible for even lawyers to get it wrong, though less likely than most of us on this forum. The relevant part for me is "However, such punishment would not be in the form of penalty points on your driving licence but rather a fine." My interpretation is that "would not" means what I said rather than your "UNLIELY" but again IANAL

Whatever the court can do - and disqualification from driving for any criminal offence is included - I'd recommend you consider your next steps.

I'd recommend starting by reading carefully everything you have been given, including the original fixed penalty notice. If there's been a mistake, it's almost certainly been in the way your case has been processed eg dealt with as though you were driving a motor vehicle. If you identify an error, take prompt steps to deal with it. Once upon a time, ignoring a fixed penalty meant the prosecution had to prove everything from the basics but that is largely history. Ignore the correspondence and you risk things grinding inevitably on.

Thanks everyone. Yes I’ve done some more reading and from what I can see there is no provision in law for penalty points for cycling offences. I tried to query it with the met police but was told just to contest it in court. I will write to them to say I will be doing this… seems a bit ridiculous to go to court as it’s an administrative error but doesn’t look like there is any other way.

Presumably you're in the UK?

It's certainly the case in other countries that offences commited on a bike add points to your driving licence, e.g. Germany.

Brixton23 wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 3:12pm Thanks everyone. Yes I’ve done some more reading and from what I can see there is no provision in law for penalty points for cycling offences. I tried to query it with the met police but was told just to contest it in court. I will write to them to say I will be doing this… seems a bit ridiculous to go to court as it’s an administrative error but doesn’t look like there is any other way.

The problem with trying to sort out something like this on the phone is that you may not be dealing with somebody who can do that.

Your starting point has to be the offence for which the fixed penalty was issued. In particular, "traffic" offences subject to fixed penalties are listed under Schedule 3

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/schedule/3

Check you have not been treated in error as the driver of a "mechanically propelled vehicle."

Schedule 2 may help check

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/schedule/2

Assuming you identify a clear mistake - eg receiving a fixed penalty for an offence specific to mechanically propelled vehicles, then write to the issuing authority in polite terms. I did urge reading everything and eg if the issuing officer's summary refers to a pedal cycle, that's excellent evidence that you were not driving a car

Alternatively, quote the Act and Section under which your fixed penalty was issued and we'll try to clarify.

I just had a look at what I think is one relevant piece of legislation, The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, and it doesn’t seem to differentiate according to what vehicle a person might be in charge of when committing an offence, it just talks about the trial and punishment of a person charged with an offence.

However, the Road Traffic Act 1988, which defines the offences defines most of those I’ve checked in terms of a person driving “…a mechanically propelled vehicle….”.

Assuming that you know what you were charged with, it ought to be possible to look at the RTA and see whether it is as above for that offence. If it is, my guess is that you are on a winner, although winning without wasting your own time and everyone else’s by going to court might prove difficult!

Likewise, if you were charged with a specific cycling offence, I think you are also onto a winner, because there appears to be no provision through the two acts to endorse a license in that case (I can’t actually work out what the punishments are for cycling specific offences, fines I guess).

A 19 year old on an escooter got 6 points on his licence in Southampton the other week

A “mechanically propelled vehicle”, I guess.

I fear I have fallen into the trap of over-complicating this.

For starters, quote the actual alleged offence, including in particular the act and section.

"While it is true that you can’t have your driving licence endorsed with penalty points because of an offence committed on a bicycle, it’s often overlooked that the court does have a general power under the Power of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000 to disqualify anyone from driving, without imposing penalty points, for any offence, including a cycling offence."
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/whats ... -your-bike

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: ↑14 Jul 2023, 9:11pm "While it is true that you can’t have your driving licence endorsed with penalty points because of an offence committed on a bicycle, it’s often overlooked that the court does have a general power under the Power of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000 to disqualify anyone from driving, without imposing penalty points, for any offence, including a cycling offence."
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/whats ... -your-bike

Jonathan

Does that mean they either have to disqualify him or not give him any penalty points at all ? Sounds like it's one or the other.