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Shall we order together?....
I know what you mean about toe down, maybe that had something to do with my pedal stroke toeing in on the down stroke when I had the 175mm cranks. I was using the float all the time in the pedals. That stopped entirely when I changed to 165mm. I didn't change the seat height at first.531colin wrote: ↑3 Aug 2023, 6:30pm In the video you are pedalling toe down.
That being the case, I would advise NOT to put the saddle up. Unless you are really sure.
You can talk about 3 types of pedallers, if you like;
1) Toe down pedallers........these people will continue to pedal toe-down, even if their saddle is low. thats just how they pedal.
2) "Joe average".......foot roughly level.....of course, if you put Joe's saddle UP, he will then pedal toe-down.....he has to, in order to reach the pedal.
3) heel down pedallers.....Chris Froome. ...was happy with an un-fashionably low saddle, rode with his heels down.....didn't seem to slow him down much.
My approach to saddle height is this;
Set the saddle low enough so you can pedal smoothly at your chosen cadence on your worst day, when you are tired and stiff.
Then on bumpy bits you can take your weight on your feet.....much less tiring than being bounced around all the time.
If you want a short burst of "maximum power for muscle work" (example.....to crest a rise without changing down a gear) then you can drop your heels and/or slide back in the saddle for greater knee extension. We used to call this "forcing the gear" (max. power for the muscle work comes as the knee is almost straight)
forcing the gear by 531colin, on Flickr
Thats me forcing the gear on my mate's trainer.
009 by 531colin, on Flickr
Thats a friend of mine dropping his heel on the gated road climb out of Dentdale towards Ingleton, above the waterfall.
You don't need "maximum power for muscle work" for an entire ride....most of us are just "tapping along" for most of the time.
Raising his saddle risks making him over-extend his knees or rock his pelvis to reach the bottom pedal.
What is to be gained from the OP raising his saddle?
On another issue, your elbows are more or less locked-out in the video. I would therefore question reach......but not yet, saddle position is the first thing to sort out.
Working on saddle height.
Saddle fore and aft .....can you do my no-hands balance holding your hoods position?
Balanced position by 531colin, on Flickr
Thanks for sharing the photographs, it's appreciated. Hope you don't mind me saying that in the photos your arms look to be 'straighter' than I would feel comfortable. I norhave more of a bend at the elbow. Have you ever tried a handlebar stem which is a bit shorter?
I too have tried the no handed balance and leaning forward...it definitely wasn't balanced and easy, it took an effort.cycle tramp wrote: ↑3 Aug 2023, 9:23pmThanks for sharing the photographs, it's appreciated. Hope you don't mind me saying that in the photos your arms look to be 'straighter' than I would feel comfortable. I norhave more of a bend at the elbow. Have you ever tried a handlebar stem which is a bit shorter?
willcee wrote: ↑3 Aug 2023, 9:48pm Hello, interesting reading,as always i pay attention when i see a chap with a similarish thick broad chested frame and like me using straight armed forward position. I listened back in the day when Colin was showing us his weightless hood position and at length tried to replicate this as i know i have too much weight on the bars, and my chum also a big chap and and avid cyclist maybe 10 years my junior one morning when the issue was being aired says theres no way that either you or me with our big chest and shoulders and our heavy weight above the waist are going to balance weightless on the bars , if we did thereS no saddle post even the Gumpert you use and the long railed French mente saddle it would need to be a few inches more adjustable and then where would our legs be.. i can be happy for maybe 30/40 miles after that its at best discomfort and hopefully closer to home.. will
.I shall have a look and see what room I've got on the rails, even if it's only a few mm. I don't get numb hands or pins and needles like I did on my 56cm Ridgeback, the drawback with that was I had plenty of room to move it back but couldn't reach the hoods then.531colin wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 10:36am I'm currently looking at e bikes.
I think its a reasonable assumption that E bike customers will be people unable or unwilling to do all the work propelling the bike themselves?
And yet flat bar hybrid E bikes regularly have 73 and 74 degree seat tube angles, throwing the riders weight forward onto their hands.
Such is fashion!
Long layback seatposts are a perennial on here viewtopic.php?t=104331&hilit=ergotech&start=45
As far as I'm concerned, the "choice" between being uncomfortable or buying a different seatpost is a no-brainer.
This one https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/ ... -x-272-mm/is expensive and no lightweight, but as far as I know gives the longest layback of anything commercial; need more layback than that, and you are into making your own, or the dreadful "Ergotech" thing
I think getting your weight off your hands has more to do with where your butt is than where your hands are, but I have always been skinny.
(if centre of mass is around the hip/pelvis area, then centre of mass moves further when you move your ass than when you move your hands?)
I can recommend that seat (saddle ?) post. I've got one and it's a thing of beauty. It also helped me finally achieve my most comfortable riding position531colin wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 10:36am
Long layback seatposts are a perennial on here viewtopic.php?t=104331&hilit=ergotech&start=45
As far as I'm concerned, the "choice" between being uncomfortable or buying a different seatpost is a no-brainer.
This one https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/ ... -x-272-mm/is expensive and no lightweight, but as far as I know gives the longest layback of anything commercial; need more layback than that, and you are into making your own, or the dreadful "Ergotech" thing
I would suggest trying it a little higher, maybe a whole centimetre, my rule of thumb is leg locked out with the heel on the pedal, you can always put it back if you don't get on with that (obvs measure before you move anything!)maximus meridius wrote: ↑3 Aug 2023, 1:27pm
I think some people may say that you leg isn't quite extended enough. Maybe.
I'd second that recommendation. I got one because:cycle tramp wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 5:43pmI can recommend that seat (saddle ?) post. I've got one and it's a thing of beauty. It also helped me finally achieve my most comfortable riding position531colin wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 10:36am
Long layback seatposts are a perennial on here viewtopic.php?t=104331&hilit=ergotech&start=45
As far as I'm concerned, the "choice" between being uncomfortable or buying a different seatpost is a no-brainer.
This one https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/ ... -x-272-mm/is expensive and no lightweight, but as far as I know gives the longest layback of anything commercial; need more layback than that, and you are into making your own, or the dreadful "Ergotech" thing
Raise the saddle? For what purpose? OP is already toe down in the video.foxyrider wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 7:21pmI would suggest trying it a little higher, maybe a whole centimetre, my rule of thumb is leg locked out with the heel on the pedal, you can always put it back if you don't get on with that (obvs measure before you move anything!)maximus meridius wrote: ↑3 Aug 2023, 1:27pm
I think some people may say that you leg isn't quite extended enough. Maybe.
Here is a description of the three pedalling "styles", by Steve Hogg, as referenced in this thread. He has videos of the styles. Using YouTube settings it is possible to slow the videos down to 25% of the original speed, the better to see how much the toe points down to define the "toe down" style.531colin wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 8:16pmRaise the saddle? For what purpose? OP is already toe down in the video.foxyrider wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 7:21pmI would suggest trying it a little higher, maybe a whole centimetre, my rule of thumb is leg locked out with the heel on the pedal, you can always put it back if you don't get on with that (obvs measure before you move anything!)maximus meridius wrote: ↑3 Aug 2023, 1:27pm
I think some people may say that you leg isn't quite extended enough. Maybe.
One fly in the ointment is that my Seat tube has 27.0mm ID and I don't think they make them that size. I could try a saddle with longer rails though.531colin wrote: ↑4 Aug 2023, 10:36am I'm currently looking at e bikes.
I think its a reasonable assumption that E bike customers will be people unable or unwilling to do all the work propelling the bike themselves?
And yet flat bar hybrid E bikes regularly have 73 and 74 degree seat tube angles, throwing the riders weight forward onto their hands.
Such is fashion!
Long layback seatposts are a perennial on here viewtopic.php?t=104331&hilit=ergotech&start=45
As far as I'm concerned, the "choice" between being uncomfortable or buying a different seatpost is a no-brainer.
This one https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/ ... -x-272-mm/is expensive and no lightweight, but as far as I know gives the longest layback of anything commercial; need more layback than that, and you are into making your own, or the dreadful "Ergotech" thing
I think getting your weight off your hands has more to do with where your butt is than where your hands are, but I have always been skinny.
(if centre of mass is around the hip/pelvis area, then centre of mass moves further when you move your ass than when you move your hands?)
).