Wot! No lids?!

[pjclinch]

Currently in The Netherlands at the moment, there seems to be more people wearing helmets since the last time I was here in 2018

Might that simply be down to an increased level of awareness on your part? (e.g. I was never really aware of Skoda Yetis before I bought one and now I see them everywhere.)

No been there quite a few time over the years. Just more people wearing helmets. Some are older people on ebikes, which weren't around 10 years ago.

By far the majority of people don't wear helmets though.

First time I went was late 2003, and I counted 10 people over a weekend in Amsterdam with helmets, all obviously either tourists or sport riders. Given that you see literally thousands of cyclists over a weekend in Amsterdam this is not many...
As I have family there I go back reasonably often, and since then there are definitely far more 20 years later but these are in fairly clear niches. Chain gangs now it's the norm where originally it was a mix. There are definitely more kids with them on but it's certainly not pervasive: when a Dutch niece was small she had one but neither she not her parents seemed to worry much about whether she wore it. Also more older folk, particularly those on e-bikes are wearing them, and like the kids this is at the level where it's no longer remarkable to see one, but probably far fewer with lids than without.

Pete.

[Stevek76]

Whether it actually is providing significantly improved outcomes is an interesting one. In theory the sort old person (mostly men) solo oopsies on ebikes that has been behind a significant number and spike in Dutch cycling fatalities in recent years should be the sort of incident a typical cycle helmet is well suited to providing some protection for.

[mattsccm]

If there is an increase in fatalities of old men riding ebikes (for example) surely the answer is to stop that combination from being on the (off)road?

[Mike Sales]

If there is an increase in fatalities of old men riding ebikes (for example) surely the answer is to stop that combination from being on the (off)road?

Proposals to ban drivers over a certain age don't get far, nor to ban young drivers, though both groups have a higher accident rate than the average, with the added risk to other road users.
It is rather draconian to give a driving or cycling ban as a birthday present.

[Jdsk]

If there is an increase in fatalities of old men riding ebikes (for example) surely the answer is to stop that combination from being on the (off)road?

Before making any decisions, let alone prohibiting others from doing something, it's a good idea to look at both the benefits and the harms.

Jonathan

[mattheus]

If there is an increase in fatalities of old men riding ebikes (for example) surely the answer is to stop that combination from being on the (off)road?

Could be a goer ...

Perhaps if they are mostly wearing helmets, we could first try taking their helmets away?

[pjclinch]

If there is an increase in fatalities of old men riding ebikes (for example) surely the answer is to stop that combination from being on the (off)road?

Old people rather than men, I understand there is (though men are getting dead more than women).
Which at the "common-sense" level at least may be related to e-bikes as their popularity grows. Older people tend to suffer more in falls, serious falls tend to be speed related and octaganerians on oma/opafietsen generally do rather less than 25 km/h which suddenly becomes easy on an e-bike.

As for saving such people from themselves, remember that the most effective way to reduce cycle fatalities is to ban cycling, but while reducing cycling fatalities is a Good Thing if all else is equal, typically it isn't - save one life from a bike crash, probably lose several from inactivity related health issues, or from the now non-cyclist travelling by car and increasing road danger overall. Given the costs (financial, mortality and quality of life) of folk being less active when they're old it is, as Jonathan suggests, very much a job for risk/benefit analysis rather than one sort of risk reduction.

Pete.

[Stevek76]

If there is an increase in fatalities of old men riding ebikes (for example) surely the answer is to stop that combination from being on the (off)road?

Why? So they can die a drawn out death from some sort of cardiovascular problem? I'd rather go out on the bike enjoying life tbh.


Also I think we need to be careful with such collision statistics (and I do raise this when certain agitators elsewhere like to point at the recent increase in dutch cycling fatalities as some sort of anti cycling provision argument) because it's often not comparing like with like.

If someone has a heart attack on a bike and dies they're a collision statistic. If they have a heart attack and die as a pedestrian they're not.

[mattsccm]

Oh dear, . I was suggesting a specific group as an example. Was it that cryptic? I was also suggesting that there are many reasons for anything. Not wearing a helmet isn't the cause of an injury but coming off the bike may well be. After all if you stay upright you don't need a helmet.

[pjclinch]

Oh dear, . I was suggesting a specific group as an example. Was it that cryptic? I was also suggesting that there are many reasons for anything. Not wearing a helmet isn't the cause of an injury but coming off the bike may well be. After all if you stay upright you don't need a helmet.

Sorry, but TBH that clarification hasn't really clarified much for me...