Cycling UK Forum

Maybe it's age specific, maybe it's "life of cycling specific", but 20mph seems too much to me.
I'm in my late 50's. By any standards I'm above average fitness and not carrying any weight. I can run 5k in 21 mins....
15mph on my local loop (which is rolling, but not mountainous), it's decent enough. If I really pushed it I could probably get to 17...
Sure, if you're in a club and its your only thing it might be possible, but that's a very niche demographic.

Regarding the OP, I would start off by doing short rides at 15mph and then build it up. Sometimes you just need your brain to realise that it's possible.
Most people can swing golf clubs much faster than they think, they just don't actually try to.

Tigerbiten wrote: ↑17 Aug 2023, 12:25pm

ed.lazda wrote: ↑17 Aug 2023, 10:04am

any fit person should be able to cycle 20 miles in one hour, on average

I'm a bit sceptical about this – where does the information come from? It's a sort of vague target that ...

I don't think I've every cycled 20 miles in an hour.
You hit the first aero-wall around 15-17mph where air resistance starts to ramp up badly and to go a little faster starts to take a lot more effort.
So 15 mph for a hour is doable because you're just below the wall.
20 mph for an hour means your fairly elite so not really doable.

As a younger rider i rode everywhere at 20mph! Problem was i then struggled to go faster when i was racing. I eventually cracked that issue by riding less and with more variety of speed and terrain. By the time i 'retired' from racing i could manage 28mph avg for an hour plus (before all this aero stuff came along) But my normal riding speed was more like 18mph.

These days most of my rides are purely for leisure, 60-100 miles averaging 13/14mph (mostly i'm actually riding closer to 18mph but the hills drag the average down ) But, and its a big but, i do a few sportives, usually the 'long' option so usually between 80 and 120 miles which i usually complete at @ 22mph or so av. I'm used to doing similar distances, ramping up my effort is relatively easy, keeping fuelled is the main task, at my age i should know how but i still get it wrong sometimes

So 20mph doesn't mean you are elite, it means you have the fitness and techniques to do it. A reasonably fit person can often blag the speed for an hour but thats it, they blow big time. I see it time and again on sportives (and similar events) as well as just out riding when they use everything to catch and pass me then take the next turn and hope i don't follow - they'll be stopped around the corner seeing their last meal again Meanwhile i'll be tootling along at the same speed as i have all day.

We all have our own 'happy' pace, our own comfort zone, i'm with Eddy on this, i just like to see people on bikes, however far, slow or whatever they go. I was a bit sad today, i didn't see a single cyclist between leaving Bristol this morning and returning this afternoon some 70 miles and a trip to Royal Wootton Bassett later, maybe the breeze put everyone off?

foxyrider wrote: ↑17 Aug 2023, 9:45pm
As a younger rider i rode everywhere at 20mph! Problem was i then struggled to go faster when i was racing. I eventually cracked that issue by riding less and with more variety of speed and terrain. By the time i 'retired' from racing i could manage 28mph avg for an hour plus (before all this aero stuff came along) But my normal riding speed was more like 18mph.

thank you!

at last someone who doesn't make me feel like an alien who woke up on the wrong planet
And of course for leisure, most of us, when as touring cyclists, pace slower to take in more of the scenery, but ride harder when we choose to.
I suppose another aspect is some people just hate to get sweaty, and at 20 mph you're more likely to be, than at 16. Horses for courses.

harriedgary wrote: ↑16 Aug 2023, 10:57pm any fit person should be able to cycle 20 miles in one hour, on average

harriedgary wrote: ↑17 Aug 2023, 9:14pm the average person should be able to do 20 miles in one hour

There's an important difference between those two statements -- if the average person should be able to do it, that may mean that nearly 50% of people can't.

And, of course, your view of what's possible or average will depend on the company you keep. If you're in a club where most people race, and you're about average in that club, your ability is likely to be way above the average for the general cycling popluation. This gives you a skewed view of what the average rider can do -- and remember again, 50% of people are below average.

Cycling to go faster probably requires focussed training.

First of all, I would recommend joining a chain gang. The easiest way to do that is probably a local cycling club. The folks doing chain gangs (often) train to go faster, and can give you some tips.

Secondly, do you know your cadence? If your cadence is below 80 revolutions per minute, that's something to work on.

Thirdly, you need to take a look at where your average times are suffering the most, and work specifically on those areas. You said that your friend beats you up hills, so it could well be your climbing that is limiting your average speed, so do some training just for that. Go out a couple of times week & either target a hilly ride, or do repeats on the same hill.

A final point relates to how often and how much you cycle. There's nothing like miles to improve both average speed and cycling fitness. I probably had to do 200ish miles per week before I saw significant improvement in my average speed for rides.

Tigerbiten wrote: ↑17 Aug 2023, 12:25pm I don't think I've every cycled 20 miles in an hour.
You hit the first aero-wall around 15-17mph where air resistance starts to ramp up badly and to go a little faster starts to take a lot more effort.
So 15 mph for a hour is doable because you're just below the wall.
20 mph for an hour means your fairly elite so not really doable.

I'm nowhere near elite, but the years that I had over 5000 miles per year, I could just about get 20 mph average for a ride if I tried. My normal average was more like 16 - 18 mph, e.g. on a commute when I didn't want to arrive too exhausted to work

I couldn't sustain that for 70 miles. My (moving) average for 70 miles was more like 13 - 15 mph. It's lower now, but I tend to take a more leisurely approach to cycling these days

There was a considerable list of cycling club members who had done our 25 mile time trial in one hour, and although there were a few on that list who had gone on to become professional cyclists, the vast majority never even raced outside of the club TTs.

I've done some calculations, and I think if I could repeat my all-time best 1-hour power output, in perfect conditions – smooth tarmac, flat, no wind – I could just about manage an average 20mph. According to intervals.icu, this power output is almost exactly average for my age group (M 60+).

I'm 82 - I'm just happy to be able to ride my bike - albeit slowly.

ed.lazda wrote: ↑18 Aug 2023, 10:15am

harriedgary wrote: ↑16 Aug 2023, 10:57pm any fit person should be able to cycle 20 miles in one hour, on average

harriedgary wrote: ↑17 Aug 2023, 9:14pm the average person should be able to do 20 miles in one hour

There's an important difference between those two statements -- if the average person should be able to do it, that may mean that nearly 50% of people can't.

And, of course, your view of what's possible or average will depend on the company you keep. If you're in a club where most people race, and you're about average in that club, your ability is likely to be way above the average for the general cycling population. This gives you a skewed view of what the average rider can do -- and remember again, 50% of people are below average.

you have made some points. However, humans being the beings that they be, self selection tends to take out the slowest and turn them into volvo drivers. Seriously, if someone for whatever reason cannot keep up even 12 mph let alone 16 plus, then they will put that bike away behind a few bits in the garage and never see it again.

So I'd argue that a regularly active homogeneous cycling population is likely to be made up from more of the more capable cyclists, the less capable are watching footy with pizza and beer. My original "average person" excludes the pizza eating beer swilling footy fan.

It's like the argument about hills. That's been tossed back and forth a few times. By the time I was 13, I was cycling up 1 in 10 hills on a 3 speed bike, and so were random other casual cyclists. Now even with 18 speed lightweight bikes, there is the regular cry of "it's too steep" Not withstanding that someone with medical reasons like knees or breathing might get off and walk.
But has Britain become a nation of couch potatoes, because the difference between the 1970s and the 2020s seems staggering.

oh and what I originally said in full was:

harriedgary wrote: ↑16 Aug 2023, 10:57pm Get the fuel right, and the training right, then any fit person should be able to cycle 20 miles in one hour, on average.

In my youth (well, early 40s) I had a commute of about 9.6 miles.
My aim over the summer was to get down to sub 30 minutes which meant that for parts of the ride I had to be averaging over 20 mph (what with hills, junctions etc.).
I could do this but was really pushing over a lot of the route.
However I never considered longer rides at 20 mph+.
My long range average speed at the time was around 13 mph.
[Riding a steel no suspension MTB.]

Moving on a few decades, and the fittest I have been in the last few years is when I was training to ride across the Netherlands to Germany.
[Or, to be fair, about the end of Day 3 of the ride.]
My longest training ride of just over 50 miles had an average speed of 13 mph.
This on a modern touring bike with higher gears than the MTB.
On this bike I could sustain bursts of 20 mph or more if pushed, but I certainly wouldn't contemplate riding 50-100 miles at this pace.

I have realised that a lot of this is mental.
I ride further as I get older because I know that I can do it.

I could no doubt raise my average speed on a ride if I tried hard enough.
However I would need a lot of motivation to put in the long and painful dedicated hours to achieve this aim.
Not feeling that at the moment.

harriedgary wrote: ↑22 Aug 2023, 1:14pm <snip>
you have made some points. However, humans being the beings that they be, self selection tends to take out the slowest and turn them into volvo drivers. Seriously, if someone for whatever reason cannot keep up even 12 mph let alone 16 plus, then they will put that bike away behind a few bits in the garage and never see it again.
<snip>

Just for the record, I ride with a group of mature cyclists and we are happy to maintain an average of around 10 mph on 20-25 mile rides with a break for coffee in the middle.
So far the bikes haven't been left in the shed.

Oh, and I used to drive a Volvo Estate (well, have owned several).
Noting that my last one was an 850R with 240 bhp.
Volvo cognoscenti will recognise this as based on the BTC championship version.
So driving a Volvo doesn't always mean flat cap and 50 mph in the middle lane of a motorway.

LittleGreyCat wrote: ↑22 Aug 2023, 1:33pm So driving a Volvo doesn't always mean flat cap and 50 mph in the middle lane of a motorway.

flatcap! who is calling who...?
(always lusted after the XC90 but in a different universe)

Im a pretty slow cyclist and average about 12-13mph on my weekend rides of usually 30-40miles. But I'm a heavy rider on a heavy hub geared bike and a good proportion of my rides are off road - plus i live near the edge of the Peaks. I can keep up with most average folks on the flat but as I'm gravitationally enhanced am rather slow on climbs.

A year or two back i did a sportive with a couple of mates in Lincolnshire - I wasn't very fit but averaged about 18mph over a 100mile route. Fastest ride I've ever done. Flat as a pancake plus a tea stop every 30 miles- only one minor hill on the entire route - which to my amusement some people were walking up.

Now when i see people posting average speeds I just imagine they live in Lincolnshire and don't feel so bad for my efforts

harriedgary wrote: ↑22 Aug 2023, 1:14pm
Seriously, if someone for whatever reason cannot keep up even 12 mph let alone 16 plus, then they will put that bike away behind a few bits in the garage and never see it again.

So I'd argue that a regularly active homogeneous cycling population is likely to be made up from more of the more capable cyclists, the less capable are watching footy with pizza and beer.

Um, the vast majority of daily cyclists average something like 8 or 9 mph.

Because 100 years ago, people used to do hard physical work. People lifted 50 Kg easier than modern humans manage to lift 25 Kg. People would walk 5 miles to work then back. Lift a shovel for 8 hours

…… then died at, by modern standards, impressively early ages.

In the 1950s average life expectancy for a man was c65, its now c15 years greater. Lots of factors involved in that change, but not wrecking the body by hard manual labour is one. There’s a point where beneficial exercise tips over into debilitating hard work, and a lot of the guys doing the jobs you mention were prey to the latter.

Anyway …… I still think your “any fit person can do twenty miles in an hour” has so many caveats and conditions to be attached to it, and it probably breaks down completely if the question is averaging 20mph over several hours, that it isn’t really all that meaningful.

The club I’m a member of has a large membership and puts out many rides each week, as many as ten or fifteen in summer, and it’s noticeable that it usually only musters one Cat A each week, with c8 riders. That’s the only ride that averages 20mph. The vast majority of members ride in the various Cat B subsections, so c15mph over various distances, and there are usually two Cat C, what amount to a “beginners and older pensioners”, rides each week, running at 10-12mph. And that’s people who are keen enough to join a club and might consider themselves ‘cyclists’.

In another thread there’s a discussion about sustainable power outputs of cyclists going on, and that amounts to the same subject looked at differently, and there too I sense people overestimating what is ‘normal’, especially for older riders.

As for packing it in if you can’t maintain a 16mph average, or is it a 12mph average: madness.

On some rides I average as low as 6mph (so over two and an half hours to go sixteen miles) and they’re sometimes among the most enjoyable. OK, they’re the ones where a lot of pushing and/or carrying the bike is involved, so might be counted partly as hiking, rather cycling, but they’re still a lot of fun, and they certainly pack in the most aerobic and cardio exercise per unit time.