Hill Starts - E-assist not helping

[Bonzo Banana]

More good news: according to this post on the Pedelecs.co.uk, DfT allow throttles on e-bike conversions, provided the converted bicycle has previously been used as a purely muscle-powered bicycle and subject to the usual 250W and 25kmph restrictions. So if you are doing a conversion, you may fit the throttle (that typically comes with a conversion kit) and use it as you wish, e.g. for starting.

Can anyone find the exact wording on the official gov site for this? Coz I sure can't.

Edit: I have still not found any official documents specifying the use of a twist and go throttle on a converted ebike however, after much digging and scrambling I have found further info on the matter and it is not as straight forward as we'd like to think. Again, it is not a link to a UK gov web page but it is contrary to the original link posted above and again, from the pedalics forum itself

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/thread ... ost-558483

Basically, it appears that there are no laws whatsoever relating specifically to ebike conversions, only manufactured ebikes. We conversionists are in a black hole.

Yes as far as I understand that letter was received as clarification from the department for transport you could call it a black hole that no further clarification exists I guess but even their general page regarding twist and go throttles does exclude or omit end users at the beginning. They seem to be only interested in importers, retailers and manufacturers. I've personally never heard of a throttle controlled ebike being prosecuted. Yes I've read of high power ebikes that assist beyond 15.5mph owners being prosecuted that also happen to have a throttle but not ebikes that have legal assistance speed and a throttle and considering all the pre 2017 ebikes with throttles which never needed to be registered etc I wonder how they work out the legality of throttles especially if the throttle only operates to 6km/h or only operates when pedalled like some newer ebikes, ebikes with throttles are not easy to prosecute its very complex. Even certified 250W ebikes are using close to 900W power which is ridiculous, it's like every ebike is called 250W even if its actual wattage is hugely different which makes no sense. The only real consistency in the law is not assisting beyond 15.5mph and there is a 10% tolerance in that so allows up to 17mph assistance. I think the DfT's lack of involvement/interest in converted ebikes is a blessing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ycles-eapc

[CJ]

I don't have E-assist. But my technique for steep hill starting is to start at 90 degrees to the hill. Point the bike across the road, one foot on a pedal, and this usually gives time for lifting the other foot while setting off.
Obviously this depends on practical issues. Is the road wide enough, no traffic, etc'.

Mine too. I find that a key advantage and refinement of this technique - on hills steep enough to want it - is to place the bike so one's on-road foot is up-slope, for that enables one to start in the saddle already!

Unfortunately this technique is of no use to someone whose hill-start problem is a fear of falling at low speed. For sharp turns up into a steep slope are also off their agenda - especially within a moment of starting!

[cycleruk]

I don't have E-assist. But my technique for steep hill starting is to start at 90 degrees to the hill. Point the bike across the road, one foot on a pedal, and this usually gives time for lifting the other foot while setting off.
Obviously this depends on practical issues. Is the road wide enough, no traffic, etc'.

Mine too. I find that a key advantage and refinement of this technique - on hills steep enough to want it - is to place the bike so one's on-road foot is up-slope, for that enables one to start in the saddle already!

Unfortunately this technique is of no use to someone whose hill-start problem is a fear of falling at low speed. For sharp turns up into a steep slope are also off their agenda - especially within a moment of starting!

Have to go back down and start again.

[CJ]

Have to go back down and start again.

Is NOT even funny.

[cycleruk]

Have to go back down and start again.

Is NOT even funny.

Apologies.
Sorry.

[Vantage]

I thought it was funny

[peterb]

Have to go back down and start again.

Is NOT even funny.

I've had to do just that on occasion

[Lazycarton]

The regulations for ebikes as far as I know (I've checked this online and various sites confirm it) allow the use of a start assistance throttle provided it cuts off at 3.7mph. One site says the throttle can assist up to 15.5mph if the cycle is pedalled at the same time (not too sure about that one).

There is freely available software endorsed by Bafang themselves to tweak the setting of their mid drive and I think hub drive motors.
The easiest way I personally find to do this is by an android (unsure if apple support it)app called speeed. The help menu covers every setting. The motor can as far as I know he set to pull away straight away from the smallest pedal push but you need to be careful with it. It can burn out the motor or throw Helen off the bike if it pulls too hard. You'll need a cable too. https://amzn.eu/d/gLUwP5u

My Wisper 905 Torque has a throttle as standard. It cuts off at 3.7mph when used on it's own but can assist up to 15.5mph if the cycle is pedalled at the same time. It is a really clever add-on and I think it would be the answer to your problem. Starting uphill is no pronlem at all and where I live there are may on road and off road places where I need it. When pedalling it is a hoot doing 15mph up some hills that would defeat now given my age and Long Covid...oh and dodgy L knee (my dominant leg). If I start halfway up a steep hill I turn the throttle and as I start pedalling it is like starting on the flat.

[CJ]

There is freely available software endorsed by Bafang themselves to tweak the setting of their mid drive and I think hub drive motors.
The easiest way I personally find to do this is by an android (unsure if apple support it)app called speeed. The help menu covers every setting. The motor can as far as I know he set to pull away straight away from the smallest pedal push but you need to be careful with it. It can burn out the motor or throw Helen off the bike if it pulls too hard. You'll need a cable too. https://amzn.eu/d/gLUwP5u

Inspired by your post, I bit the bullet and bought a programming lead last August. I bought it from Elespeed, because of the many Ebay suppliers they seemed more likely to provide the after-sales help I thought I might need. I did, but they didn't! The lead and supplied software never worked properly. It seemed to communicate with the motor controller but only one-way, didn't let me change anything. But as with all computer problems, it's hard to tell where the problem lies, hardware or software. And by the time I'd given up trying different drivers etc, Ebay's returns window had closed and Elespeed never replied to any of my emails. So that was £15 down the drain. Maybe this lead might've worked with the Speeed app. I tried that too, but that app hasn't been kept up-to-date and wouldn't work with the newer version of Android used by my phone.

Reluctant though I was to throw good money after bad, I eventually (in November) bought another lead: this one from 'mhewebe'. I don't know if this is significant but it looks less 'home-made', being moulded in one piece, rather than assembled like the Elespeed lead within a transparent plastic sleeve. And it came with software on USB stick rather than download it yourself. And it worked straightaway!

Thanks to that I have programmed Helen's motor to assist in a similar manner with regard to cadence, at all levels of assistance. For as supplied by Bafang, the motor cuts the lower levels of power at progressively lower cadences. So if, like Helen, you prefer to pedal briskly, you don't get any help at all unless you either pedal unnaturally and inefficiently slow, or select an altogether much higher level of help than you need! I've also set the motor to cut in sooner after pedalling starts. Together, those changes have helped with starting - but not enough to start on steep hills.

My Wisper 905 Torque has a throttle as standard. It cuts off at 3.7mph when used on it's own but can assist up to 15.5mph if the cycle is pedalled at the same time. It is a really clever add-on and I think it would be the answer to your problem. Starting uphill is no problem at all and where I live there are may on road and off road places where I need it. When pedalling it is a hoot doing 15mph up some hills that would defeat now given my age and Long Covid...oh and dodgy L knee (my dominant leg). If I start halfway up a steep hill I turn the throttle and as I start pedalling it is like starting on the flat.

I think the throttle is still wanted and probably always will be for the steepest hills. And I reckon that I should now be able to program the Bafang system not to do anything naughty with it. But Helen remains reluctant to have anything on her bike that isn't utterly beyond legal reproach. And I'm prepared to wait and see if the assistance eventually gives her enough confidence that the bike will keep moving, simply to launch like I do (still without assistance).

[jrs665]

I see.

I don't have the bike anymore but now using a bafung motor. This needs a throttle to get moving on steep hills as motor does not kick in instantly when you start moving unlike the mahle x.35 which does, need to pedal a bit before the bafung kicks in.