Cycling UK Forum

When time and space allow I’m inclined to treat myself to a 20” wheel folding bicycle. Its intended purpose is utility transport and I’d like to be able to (easily) transport it in a car boot and on public transport. Ideally it’ll be good for journeys of 10 miles and OK to use on gravel paths, but you can’t have everything. A rear rack, mudguards, the ability to fit lights and some gears are essentials for me. Obviously (?) I’ll be buying second-hand ’cause I’m a poor pensioner and reuse of an existing item is greener.

What do people think makes a good 20” wheel folder? Wheel base, tyre width, brakes, saddle, weight and folding style come to mind as likely factors. What models have they experience of, what would they change if buying again and what would they avoid?

My thanks in anticipation of your responses.

Small wheel folding bikes generally involve a trade off between convenience of fold and ride quality.

I’m a fan of Bike Fridays which tend towards the ride quality end of the spectrum, but not quite as neat a fold as some others. (handlebar riser detaches rather than folds). Their bikes tended to be aimed at “serious” sport (Pocket Rocket) or touring (New World Tourist) use , but more recent models (Hauladay, OSATA) are utility orientated but will be new and expensive. A used New World Tourist would make a fine utility bike and could be had for c. £500, although some used examples I have seen are priced rather ambitiously.

There’s a well priced older Bike Friday on the classifieds at present that looks great to me, but I don’t know the bike.

My riding is more recreational sport orientated, so my priorities may not apply to utility use, but things I think matter on a 20” wheel bike include having the best quality free running hubs possible (ideally top end cup and cone Shimano) and disc brakes (as caliper brakes decrease in effectiveness on smaller wheels but still manage to wear out your rims pdq). Also note there are several different 20” wheel sizes. ERTO 406 is the norm now and has a very wide range of rim and tyre choice, while ERTO 451 is larger diameter, less common now and tyre choice is restricted. ERTO 440 is really only for Dawes Kingpin etc and very restricted tyre choice.

Why 20" in particular?
Given you're looking second hand I'd see if you can find anything available that fits the bill and worry about wheel size later, though as most folders are 20" that's probably what you'd end up with.

10 miles and gravel paths is pretty much anything, to be honest. Anything with a handlebar and a seatpost will take lights. Racks seem fairly typical on most folders, but you can always go for a bar bag/basket. Again the case that for this sort of spec you don't need to worry about gears as long as there's at least 3 covering the range you need, brakes will typically be adequate rim brakes (I don't disagree with Norton that discs are better, but have never had a problem stopping my 16" Brom or 20" Moulton with mechanical rim brakes) and if you want different tyres just fit what you like. One thing about 20" (406) compared to 16" (348), 17" (369) and 18" (?) is a better selection of tyres.

The great majority of folders just fold in two along the main frame, plus the bars fold down and the seat drops, so they're much of a muchness in that respect. These will go in a boot and e.g. a buggy space on a bus, but they won't fit between back to back train seats and are significantly more unwieldy than e.g. a Brompton to lug. In my experience you don't want to be carrying them anywhere far when folded.

They all tend to ride a bit differently, and for the most part it's just a matter of getting used to it.

Bromptons will cost more, but the fold is significantly better in terms of how compact it is and also lugging it as the fold mechanism holds it together. It can also be wheeled when folded.

(I have a Brompton, my wife has a fold-in-two 20" eBike, I've ridden (briefly) Birdys, Dahons, old Raleigh 20s)

Pete.

All the advice above is valid. However, I think there is a pretty clear split between bikes that ride well and happen to fold, and and bikes that are primarily designed to fold and are fine for short journeys but compromised in their design when it comes to longer journeys.

The more you can afford to spend, the more likely you are to end up with a bike that excels at both. Inevitably, on a bike forum you will have had names such as Bike Friday and Brompton thrown at you already. I do actually have a Brompton as I was lucky enough to buy a used one at what at the time seemed expensive but now seems more like a bargain price. That's not a 20" folder, though.

A lot depends on how tall you are, as many folders work well for smaller people but can be cramped if you are tall. I'm relatively short.

I've had budget priced folders for several years in the past and to just get something that folds enough to get it in a car there is a wide choice. Depending on train company, the fact that something has 20" wheels or less, even if it's not very compact when folded, can be enough to get on a train unbooked as "luggage" rather than as a bicycle.

My first "bike in a bag" was a used Bickerton Country which was a 20" version of the original Bickerton portable. It certainly folded well and was light but though a comfortable ride was very flexy. It's interesting if you like to collect historic folders but there are better modern designs out there.

My next one was a happy accident. It was a Viking Safari. No doubt made in the far East, it was aluminium, transmission was Shimano, the wheels were nice though unbranded and it just felt well made. It had a wheelbase comparable with a hybrid bike, and felt very comfortable for me. It came as a six speed but current models are seven speed I believe. Rim brakes, mudguards, carrier and the saddle (a random thing, I know) was so comfortable that I bought a spare one from ebay to put on my tourer. I did journeys of 25 miles, rode it to work, even rode it for leisure, and it was fine on local cycle trails and mild non road riding. The long non adjustable stem was rather flexy, so i learned to ride it by spinning up hills rather than pulling on the bars. Nothing broke or fell off. It fell into the category of a 20" bike that happened to fold.
It folded well enough to go in the car, though I didn't do any train journeys with it. Like many folders, it was a bit awkward to carry, and a toestrap through the wheels stopped it unfolding if you did carry it. I had this for about six years. It originally cost me £110 used.

I bought a used Dahon Vitesse HG7 thinking that if a cheapish folder was this good, perhaps a more premium brand would be even better. This had a Nexus hub gear. It felt solid, was well finished and the fold was better, using magnets to hold the frame closed while folded. It even had a pump built into the seat pin. And yet, despite being aluminium, it gave a harsher ride. It rolled a bit better than the Viking on smooth surfaces
but even after I experimentally fitted Big Apples still left me with numb hands on any reasonable length ride. It also felt a little cramped. If I hadn't already had the Viking I might have been satisfied with the Dahon. I wrestled with the choice and in the end kept the Viking and sold the Dahon. Of course, as always YMMV and even now, I think of the Dahon as a pretty decent folder. I bought that one on ebay for £200 and was surprised when it sold for £300.

I only sold the Safari after I'd bought the Brompton to see if it lived up to the hype and found that I hardly used the Viking once I had it. The Brompton really is surprisingly good. I did a 65 mile ride last year while exploring the Montgomery Canal towpath and while I wouldn't say the Brompton is ideal for that sort of thing it certainly coped.

Most riders wouldn't use a folder for such extreme rides and something like the Safari, maybe with a better spec and disc brakes would probably suit the OP fine without having to spend a lot. There are plenty of such things on ebay.

One unexpected advantage of having a 20" wheel bike is the low step over. When riding a diamond frame bike I had to get used to throwing a leg over it again.

I really like this - sadly it's home made...

https://theradavist.com/readers-rides-d ... road-bike/

..but, having had my eyes open to the touring possibilities of a folding bike with 20" wheels (when I briefly own a dahon speed tr) its got all the things I would look for again - wheel base equal to a bike with larger wheels, roomy cockpit, rack, clearance for 2.8 inch wide knobbly tyres, folds together as stays together as a folded unit...

I've got a 12 year old Dahon Mu P8 with 8 SRAM gears. It's been used quite a bit for work trips involving trains over the years. Here are some things to look out for.

Pros: folds quite well, just fits into vertical luggage racks on avanti trains, rides well with relatively rigid main frame, fairly light aluminium frame, has mudguards and rear rack,has an internal pump and can take a standard saddle with carradice saddlebag, very good gear range

Cons: not as small a fold as Brompton, lots of handlebar flex makes it hard to honk, can't easily wheel it while folded, folding plastic pedals disintegrated and had to be replaced, carrying luggage is tricky on rack due to heel strike, cams on the bars are hard to adjust to stop it slipping.

My thanks for the answers so far, all helpful and interesting .

Just trawling around the subject it appears that the designs that both give the better riding experiences and also happen to fold aren’t necessarily the ideal designs for storage; it's all a compromise so you can’t have it all. I’ve noted that for use away from home special parts for small bikes can be difficult to source so it’s a good idea to try to keep to standard parts.

Heel strike is something that we forget about, but it’s a real issue so (to avoid it happening) look towards carrying stuff on top of the rear rack and over the front wheel. There’s also little weight over the front of the bike and as a result it can be twitchy. Small wheels tend to give a less comfortable ride and - though the extent appears to vary - with short chain stays the saddle approaches being over the rear wheel axle; it’s best to have fat tyres and a ‘comfy’ (sprung) saddle. Bromptons’ have small wheels but - and some people might not realise this - they also have some suspension and hence a better than expected ride.

It looks like it’s a case of buy what you can both find and afford and then make it work as best you can … as it is with much of life.

One thought to share that I’ve just come across: “If it looks stupid but it works, it ain’t stupid”. That thought seems very appropriate to small wheel bikes that just get folk around: the Raleigh Twenty wasn’t ‘elegant’ but it sold in very large numbers (140,000 per year in 1975) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raleigh_T ... ly%201980s.

Your average bi-fold 20” folder is going to do what you’re asking and be able to take a rack and mudguards, however there’s a few details to look out for.

8+ speed gears for cassettes not freewheels - this provides a better set of options for tinkering.

Head tube mount - this allows a Tern luggage truss or similar to be screwed on so that a Rixen and Kaul compatible bag or basket to be clipped on as required. SJS Cycles sell the bag mounts separately if you want to add them to an existing bag/basket/crate.

Lighting - rim braked folding bikes tend to have 74mm wide hubs, which limit your hub dynamo choices. Disc braked 20” folders are usually on 100mm wide hubs, where you can shop about more.

Pedals - either cheap folding plastic, or expensive removable Japanese metal. The middle ground is scant.

I picked up a Tern Link D8 secondhand and tinkered with it to make a city bike with swept back handlebars (Soma Sparrows with a Satori Aber Hallo adaptor) and lower gears. I also briefly owned a secondhand Dahon Speed TR but quickly realised the previous owner had ridden it pretty hard and the level of work it needed was beyond my tools and experience. Lessons I learnt from that was that complexity wasn’t my friend, especially with pre-owned bikes, and a worn hybrid hub/derailleur system wasn’t great. So I got another Tern Link D8 and tinkered with it to make more of a light touring bike with dropped bars, which is now my main ride.

Living in a hilly city I’ve had success with installing cheaper 1x groupsets on the Terns for a greater range. Since then Microshift and Sunrace have introduced 1x MTB groupsets aimed at 20” wheeled kids bikes which obviously are ideal for folding bikes. This is when having a cassette hub makes life easier.

I can’t say I’ve had many issues with non-standard parts with 20” folders barring the SRAM dual drive in a pandemic - gearing and brakes are normal, and tyres are a standard size for kids bikes, increasing numbers of cargo bikes and of course BMXes. Bromptons seem to suffer this problem more with an odder tyre size and more non-standard parts.

In terms of recommendations, have a look a Tern or a Dahon, avoid the more complex models with more to go wrong, think about your luggage options and if prices are looking a bit steep secondhand the BTwin folders at Decathlon or the Carrera folders at Halfords both have been reviewed well and appear well priced.

An upcycled Raleigh Twenty. These ride beautifully.
https://hadland.wordpress.com/2015/04/0 ... 20-folder/
Curtasy of Tony Hadland.
A Dawes Kingpin also makes a nice base to upcycle.

Check out the bikes of Patrick for some ideas.
http://mapage.noos.fr/ptis.trucs.sympas ... liants.htm

I've owned a new Dahon Speed D7, Dahon Vitesse D7, Tern D8 and used Raleigh Boardwalk Airlite in that order (and a Brompton). The Vitesse and Tern were too harsh. The Tern had the best locking catches. But the Raleigh has the best ride with good handling and good comfort. It uses Dahon's rebar (reinforcement bar) geometry. Sadly none of their current models use it.

PS. Didn't like the twitchiness of the Brompton.

A cure for the "twitchiness" of small wheeled bikes is to put weight over the front wheel rather than on the rear rack. This is where the luggage mounting block of the Brompton or Tern/Dahon systems makes a big improvement. As it's fixed to the frame rather than the forks it helps with stability as well as being accesible on the move. I thought the Brompton set up was just marketing until I tried it but I don't see why it shouldn't be equally as good on other small wheelers if they can take the necessary block on the steering head.

UpWrong wrote: ↑22 Aug 2023, 11:15am PS. Didn't like the twitchiness of the Brompton.

"Twitchy"?

I think you mean responsive...

(I genuinely prefer the handling on my Moulton and Brom in traffic to any 700c bike I've ridden because they're a lot nippier when manoeuvring, but it is an acquired taste and I've got over 20 years of being used to it, though I was frankly sold on the first ride)

Partly this will depend on age, the earliest Mk 3 and before had a different hinge design, the point of the later one was to give a longer riding wheelbase while not affecting the fold, so from early noughties on they'd ride a little more "normally". Of course, it's still a short wheelbase with not much trail, so I can understand later models not being to folks' liking either.

Pete.

a.twiddler wrote: ↑22 Aug 2023, 12:43pm A cure for the "twitchiness" of small wheeled bikes is to put weight over the front wheel rather than on the rear rack. This is where the luggage mounting block of the Brompton or Tern/Dahon systems makes a big improvement. As it's fixed to the frame rather than the forks it helps with stability as well as being accesible on the move. I thought the Brompton set up was just marketing until I tried it but I don't see why it shouldn't be equally as good on other small wheelers if they can take the necessary block on the steering head.

I had the front mounting block and bag on my brompton. It does not increase the amount of trail which the bike needs. Dan Joyce of CUK agrees with me with regards to the Brommie's handling, it's not just me!!

Either all the small wheelers I've had have been equally twitchy, and I've somehow learned to ignore it or just ride anyway, or I'm in some way blind to the effect. I was expecting the Brompton to be more twitchy than all the 20" bikes I've ridden but I just adapted. After all, when you're riding a tall bike with a small front wheel on the end of a long stick it's just a matter of degree. Best to concentrate on where you want it to go rather than get all anxious about the size of the front wheel.

After a few years of riding recumbents what worries me more is the thought of flying over the handlebars, being perched up there practically on top of the front wheel. Of course that's largely an illusion too, as it's unlikely to happen unless some catastrophic event occurs, eg, pheasant wedged between your spokes. A bonus of riding a small wheeler is the ability to step off quickly without having to climb over the top tube.

UpWrong wrote: ↑22 Aug 2023, 1:39pm
I had the front mounting block and bag on my brompton. It does not increase the amount of trail which the bike needs. Dan Joyce of CUK agrees with me with regards to the Brommie's handling, it's not just me!!

I would say not that a Brompton needs more trail, end of, but it would need more trail to ride like a "normal" bike.

As above, personally I find the handling on my "twitchy" small-wheelers to be a Feature Not A Bug. (My wife, on the other hand, tolerates but isn't wild about the Moulton, dislikes the Brom and actively avoids the 8-Freight. The steering trail on that... let's just say it has an 80 degree head tube...

Pete.