Cycling UK Forum

Recently back from this summer's tour and part (6 weeks) spent in France and I was surprised by the number of previously Municipal campsites that are now in private ownership. Seems that over the last couple of years a few chains/corporates have been buying-up all the Municipal sites they can get their hands on.

Big players in this (at least in the areas I was touring) seem Only Camp, Night & Day and Flower Camping(?). Maybe others but I didn't research the history of each site I stayed at.

So far operation and pricing seems comparable to what I'd expect Municipals to be at (i.e. I'd expect prices to have risen a bit from pre-pandemic times). Maintenance is lacking e.g. in all the Only Camp sites I stayed at grass on the pitches was quite long (for camping). One change seems to be that when Acceuil closes for lunch at 12:00, rather than staff going home for a long lunch break (as municipal employees probably did), the now company employees are expected to start cleaning (e.g. sanitary block) and maintenance (hedges, etc.).

When I asked about these changes at the sites they said the company had "purchased" the site but I never found the actual detail (e.g. rented, limited term lease, etc.)

I wonder how things will develop. Corporates generally seek ever higher profits and returns on investments so maybe things will change over time? But I guess a lot would depend on the basis the company has the site e.g. full freehold, lease, rent, contract operation and any constraints imposed in any contracts.

Ian

The end of a era… not saying that all their municipal campsites were perfect - of course they weren’t. But it’s just part of the inexorable march of commerce over more social values. Similar to the loss of most of the YHAs over here.
The enduring influence of thinkers like Hayek and Rand is pulling us all down - well, all except the richest beggars, busy creaming off all the profits and trousering the results. Too sad.
o
One of the major benefits of the municipal system was equal opportunities - same with YHA. Ordinary people had a chance to holiday at all sorts of places, whether remote or more obvious locations, regardless of how profitable they actually were. The modern obsession with profitability means all but the most mainstream fall by the wayside, with no alternatives for ordinary folk. Massive loss, in my view.

That's sad to read.
I don't camp anymore but in the past I always preferred the municipal sites - some being temporary - but the great thing about them was that they gave tent campers a reasonable pitch and didn't prefer caravan users over them.

Some sites have just closed and been used for building plots.
Years back French villages were encouraged to open up camping sites. Some were very little used, usually because they were too far off popular tourist areas.

Not sure what the balance is, but I noticed quite a few aires. Presumably only suitable for motorised camping.

Are these the new camping municipal?

simonhill wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 8:29am Not sure what the balance is, but I noticed quite a few aires. Presumably only suitable for motorised camping.

Are these the new camping municipal?

I don't do camping car but at one Municipal site I stayed at (this year, still municipal) right other side of hedge was a aire for camping cars, about 20 all crammed in close together so not much space for the folding tables and chairs. I couldn't understand why with a municipal campsite the other side of the hedge with plenty of free emplacements they would chose to be squeezed in. I asked the reception and they didn't know "nothing to do with us". So I asked a camping car who was staying in the municipal site why and apparently the aire was free and the municipal site they'd have to pay (municipal pricing!).

Ian

simonhill wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 8:29am Not sure what the balance is, but I noticed quite a few aires. Presumably only suitable for motorised camping.

Are these the new camping municipal?

Aires tend to be for those with their own "facilities" like camper vans. In many years of camping in France, just once I came across an aire that was specifically open to all and there were a few lightweight campers amongst trees. This aire had a toilet block and showers.

My favourite municipals have been those where somebody comes around in the evening to collect your money. In one place it was the local police.

I have also stayed on some magnificently basic private campsites, one in the Vosges was an orchard with a very basic toilet block and shower. Excellent.

Aires are usually free, or only a minimal charge.

I think they are set up for 2 main reasons: stop people camping any and everywhere; and the 'hope' that they will spend money in the town or village.

Hordes of motorhomes have more clout than a few people in tents.

simonhill wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 3:30pm Hordes of motorhomes have more clout than a few people in tents.

This seems to be the core of the issue. Apart from very popular bike routes like the Loire, and magnets for backpackers (Paris, Rome, Milan etc.), I can't remember the last time I saw a tent other than mine on a campsite.

simonineaston wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 6:06pm The end of a era… not saying that all their municipal campsites were perfect - of course they weren’t. But it’s just part of the inexorable march of commerce over more social values. Similar to the loss of most of the YHAs over here.
The enduring influence of thinkers like Hayek and Rand is pulling us all down - well, all except the richest beggars, busy creaming off all the profits and trousering the results. Too sad.
o
One of the major benefits of the municipal system was equal opportunities - same with YHA. Ordinary people had a chance to holiday at all sorts of places, whether remote or more obvious locations, regardless of how profitable they actually were. The modern obsession with profitability means all but the most mainstream fall by the wayside, with no alternatives for ordinary folk. Massive loss, in my view.

Maaate! I mean really, what enduring influence do you think Ayn Rand has, and in France? As for Salma Hayek...

I did not notice this during my May / June 1,400kms along from Ouistreham to Ventoux: there were plenty of Camping Municipal, usually in the less touristy areas. Ditto my Saint Malo to Caen through central Normandy this month ((450kms): Ducey, Vire, Pont Farcy, Tessy were all operating fine. Along the touristy northern coast, I stayed in private campsites (perhaps just more of them), and by invitation in a horse field.

There were also a good number of tents and bikepackers around. The camping municipals are fantastic, often offering hot showers and washing facilities even when unmanned and gratis.

Bice wrote: ↑1 Sep 2023, 5:35pm I did not notice this during my May / June 1...

Sometimes the only noticeable thing was a sign near the entrance with the company name. One site I stayed at I'd assumed was Municipal (listed online as municipal) but then I noticed the person from reception started cleaning the sanitary block when Reception closed at 12:00 so asked as reception becoming cleaners would be strange for municipal employees.

None of those I noticed had received any investment or development.

Ian

I got clobbered for 20+ euros when I camped in 2019 in a site which online still seemed to be a municipal - beware zombie websites! As the name had been changed I had no way of knowing that it had changed hands, and my French wasn't good enough to read the new board properly when I got there. I also asked locally for the 'camping municipal' and was directed to it! I set up as there was no-one in reception, and only found out a couple of hours later when a man came and started bellowing at me in French. A very difficult situation but he was OK in the end. I think he got a cheap emplacement in return for managing the site, he worked nights on train maintenance (we communicated in French and hand signals!) and was worried he'd get in trouble. The site was listed in the Avenue Verrte Handbook, I did let them know, so I hope that new editions don't include it, or with a warning if they do.
The difficulty is if you have to have membership of several organisations just to your! There are some like this in the UK, not just the Camping and Caravan Club, but Green Camping, and I think another at least.

This topic was discussed in a previous post.
I responded there.
And in another topic.
Since I responded, I travelled and my view is:
1) areas with high potential will be privatized (not necessarily sold the land but contracted to a private operator).
2) areas with middle to low potential but some local businesses and low exposure to natural disaster: continued as municipals (the larger companies aren't interested in them; the benefit is the positive impact on other part of the local economy, not the questionnable profit to be made running the campsite).
3) areas with middle to low potential but some local businesses and medium to high exposure to natural disaster: closed or transformed into aire de camping car (campervans)
4) low potential other ones: closed

Although changes in society are unquestionnable, this view:

One of the major benefits of the municipal system was equal opportunities - same with YHA. Ordinary people had a chance to holiday at all sorts of places, whether remote or more obvious locations, regardless of how profitable they actually were. The modern obsession with profitability means all but the most mainstream fall by the wayside, with no alternatives for ordinary folk. Massive loss, in my view.

is more a political statement than a contribution to understanding what is happening in France.
The reality is that the finances of small local governments are strained whilst:
- demands from customers are higher resulting on needs for more investment
- regulations, norms and the likes make simply opening a camp site more expensive
- labour laws are understandably following changes in society and rising costs of operations whilst finding staff outside of usual business hours is becoming more difficult. Running a campsite is more appealing to someone who wants to run it as an own busines rather than being on municipal staff with constrained pay levels.

In those circumstances, one can understand that running and even more, investing in municipals go far down on the priority list. It is far easier to find someone that will use existant camp sites and contract running of it.
In areas with lots of tourists, only larger companies have the financial clout to invest in expensive mobil homes in a number sufficiently large to benefit from economies of scale.
Do you think that the local governments could pass a resolution to invest a couple of million Euros into rehauling a camp site when the local school where the constituency's children go needs a rehaul too? (only one example among many other needs benefitting the local population).

Hate to say it but a lot of the Municipals are being converted to Aire de Camping, often with a machine for payment and no 'camping' facilities at all. Likewise many are closing.

The problem is two fold - the increasing number of free or very cheap 'Aires' has taken much of the trade from these sites as caravan owners (who pay) are replaced by campervans (that don't) so that Municipalities see them as failing and cannot justify the costs. Quite how the various authorities allowed the situation to develop from a few VW caravanettes parking in the local carpark to 30 foot campervans getting loads of facilities for free and killing off the campsites (France has lost 40% in the last 15 years) is beyond me - though I suspect that with the expected rise in fuel costs and EV's it may turn out to be a very short sighted move.
The other problem is that the incentive to make the campsite successful is limited - the cleaners get paid whether the campsite is full or not and unless someone is employed full time to do the sort of publicity and events that a campsite needs they just whither away and then the municipality has the excuse to close them and one more drain on their resources has gone.

We took over the local Municipal site on a private contract with the municipality 8 years ago at a time when it was close to closing with under 2000 campers a year - we're now at 10,000 a year, the local restaurants can't believe their luck and the whole village has hugely benefitted, but it takes a mairie with the vision to rent out their campsite to a private individual to make this work and most can't be bothered...