you don't here stories of mobile phones catching fire during flying any more. Have manufacturers improved the safety of phone batteries. Its what we need to do to all lithium ion batteries.
Or of laptops. Or power tools. Or many of car-like objects, although every instance results in disproportionate overreporting.
So what's different about eBikes?
Two possibilities:
The batteries/ battery modules are inherently less safe.
The batteries/ battery modules are used/handled/charged/stored in less safe ways.
I'd put my money on the second as the probable big difference. And this is why it's crucial that we get better data on each adverse incident.
I happen to work close to a number of food preparation hot-spots, where the delivery guys cluster. From observation and talking to them, I see that there are a number of factors at play, at least with the guys at the lowest strata. They are forced to rent poorly maintoned e-bikes. “Maintenance” is more akin to adaptation, as it focuses on squeezing the last drop of speed and duration out of the charger/battery/bike. No heed to safety at all… Most have English as a foreign language. The notion that these guys are reading the manual, following instructions to the letter and wish to maintain a safe cycle as opposed to one that aids them deliver a maximum no of meals per shift, is laughable. Its a scandal in that these folks are in real danger and are being systematically exploited, however nobody much cares. Just so long as their expensive artisinal burger turns up pronto…
Some of the lads I’ve talked to have done back-to-back shifts and are dead on their feet and all sorts of stimulants are available to keep them going. I stress, they’re not all like this - up at the posh end, the kids on well-maintained scooters, often nice, well-organised students, seem to doing quite well out of the whole system.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
simonineaston wrote: 27 Jul 2024, 11:21am
I happen to work close to a number of food preparation hot-spots, where the delivery guys cluster. From observation and talking to them, I see that there are a number of factors at play, at least with the guys at the lowest strata. They are forced to rent poorly maintoned e-bikes. “Maintenance” is more akin to adaptation, as it focuses on squeezing the last drop of speed and duration out of the charger/battery/bike. No heed to safety at all… Most have English as a foreign language. The notion that these guys are reading the manual, following instructions to the letter and wish to maintain a safe cycle as opposed to one that aids them deliver a maximum no of meals per shift, is laughable. Its a scandal in that these folks are in real danger and are being systematically exploited, however nobody much cares. Just so long as their expensive artisinal burger turns up pronto…
Some of the lads I’ve talked to have done back-to-back shifts and are dead on their feet and all sorts of stimulants are available to keep them going. I stress, they’re not all like this - up at the posh end, the kids on well-maintained scooters, often nice, well-organised students, seem to doing quite well out of the whole system.
And this setting determines the types of intervention that will work. And which won't work.
There are two battery chemistries, with lithium cobalt oxide more prone to thermal runaway than lithium iron phosphate, but even Boeing's investigation into the Dreamliner battery incidents seems curiously vague and inconclusive, and I would think their resources are considerably in excess of those spent by E-bike manufacturers. They redesigned the battery, but Wiki makes no mention of what the fault was eventually deemed to be, or how the new design differs, and there has been another battery catch fire since modification, with no comment on what conclusions were drawn from that either. The actual failure rate looks like it's turning out to be of the order of a hundred times greater than predicted.
Jdsk wrote: 27 Jul 2024, 10:44am
you don't here stories of mobile phones catching fire during flying any more. Have manufacturers improved the safety of phone batteries. It’s what we need to do to all lithium ion batteries.
Or of laptops. Or power tools. Or many of car-like objects, although every instance results in disproportionate overreporting.
So what's different about eBikes?
Two possibilities:
The batteries/ battery modules are inherently less safe.
The batteries/ battery modules are used/handled/charged/stored in less safe ways.
I'd put my money on the second as the probable big difference. And this is why it's crucial that we get better data on each adverse incident.
Jonathan
Look into the back of a builders van I’ve seen loads which blow a hole in your money, cordless tools handled and stored in safer ways. Often thrown into bags and crates along with many other hard, sharp and moveable objects. Used with cracked cases and liberal amounts of gaffer tape too.
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life
Jdsk wrote: 27 Jul 2024, 10:44am
From another thread:
you don't here stories of mobile phones catching fire during flying any more. Have manufacturers improved the safety of phone batteries. Its what we need to do to all lithium ion batteries.
Or of laptops. Or power tools. Or many of car-like objects, although every instance results in disproportionate overreporting.
So what's different about eBikes
It's a combination of demand for an item in the process of going exponential and safety standards of foreign imports not being regulated fast enough along with the lack of education.
"Lifted like a kite from the ground both wind and string we need."
.......Phoebe Katis.....
The man who attempted to tackle the fire was also lucky not to be seriously hurt. Fires involving lithium batteries, which power these vehicles, can be ferocious, producing jets of flame. The blaze is also hot enough to melt through metal. This type of fire produces a highly flammable, explosive and toxic vapour cloud which should never be inhaled. The fire can also be extremely challenging to put out. Our advice is to get away to safety and call 999.”
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Cowsham wrote: 12 Jun 2024, 3:58pm
Never charge these batteries inside a house. At least in a shed you've got some separation. Fires can start charging any type of battery but li-polys go off like a flare and are very difficult to control.
That assumes you have power in your shed. I charge mine in the attached garage and check on it regularly for signs of overheating. But I only have a 2A charger and the battery has never exhibited any warmth during charging.
If you don't have power in a shed it isn't rocket science to run a cable as you do with a lawn mower.
Cowsham wrote: 12 Jun 2024, 3:58pm
Never charge these batteries inside a house. At least in a shed you've got some separation. Fires can start charging any type of battery but li-polys go off like a flare and are very difficult to control.
That assumes you have power in your shed. I charge mine in the attached garage and check on it regularly for signs of overheating. But I only have a 2A charger and the battery has never exhibited any warmth during charging.
If you don't have power in a shed it isn't rocket science to run a cable as you do with a lawn mower.
But it does require employing an electrician and possibly buying a new consumer unit which isn't cheap.
That assumes you have power in your shed. I charge mine in the attached garage and check on it regularly for signs of overheating. But I only have a 2A charger and the battery has never exhibited any warmth during charging.
If you don't have power in a shed it isn't rocket science to run a cable as you do with a lawn mower.
But it does require employing an electrician and possibly buying a new consumer unit which isn't cheap.
Jdsk wrote: 27 Jul 2024, 10:44am
From another thread:
you don't here stories of mobile phones catching fire during flying any more. Have manufacturers improved the safety of phone batteries. Its what we need to do to all lithium ion batteries.
I don't know how long I'd been carrying my phone around in my pocket with a swollen battery, I didn't notice until I put it on the table one day and saw it rocking around like a Kelly.
Paulatic wrote: 27 Jul 2024, 1:49pm
Look into the back of a builders van I’ve seen loads which blow a hole in your money, cordless tools handled and stored in safer ways. Often thrown into bags and crates along with many other hard, sharp and moveable objects. Used with cracked cases and liberal amounts of gaffer tape too.
A guy who used to live next door to me would leave his power tools on the back lawn, out in the rain, knackered tools are just a business expense, cheaper than the labour consumed in looking after them.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
If you don't have power in a shed it isn't rocket science to run a cable as you do with a lawn mower.
But it does require employing an electrician and possibly buying a new consumer unit which isn't cheap.
Garbage, really never heard such rubbish
ONE example of millions
Pretty sure I've read more than once that using extension leads rather than "manufacturers" supplied charge lead and plugs DIRECT from mains is a cause of mishaps and fires. I wouldn't want use a long lead into a shed.
If you don't have power in a shed it isn't rocket science to run a cable as you do with a lawn mower.
But it does require employing an electrician and possibly buying a new consumer unit which isn't cheap.
Garbage, really never heard such rubbish
ONE example of millions
If you're ever going to use an extension lead, use one of the correct length to reach don't have one that's far too long with most of the cable still rolled up on the reel. The induction currents induced will heat the whole reel up and melt the PVC etc. The more current you are using the faster that happens.
Also make sure the extension lead has a heavy enough cross section to prevent voltage drop -- the longer the lead the heavier it needs to be.
In saying that currents required to charge an ebike aren't big but there may come the day you overload it with an electric heater in winter time.
I've melted a good reel when I was a young fella fixing old cars in the shed.
"Lifted like a kite from the ground both wind and string we need."
.......Phoebe Katis.....
The man who attempted to tackle the fire was also lucky not to be seriously hurt. Fires involving lithium batteries, which power these vehicles, can be ferocious, producing jets of flame. The blaze is also hot enough to melt through metal. This type of fire produces a highly flammable, explosive and toxic vapour cloud which should never be inhaled. The fire can also be extremely challenging to put out. Our advice is to get away to safety and call 999.”
But it doesn't describe what happened... was this an eBike battery being charged with the appropriate charger according to the appropriate instructions and in the appropriate conditions or some jury-rigged set-up supporting multiple delivery drivers operating without any code of conduct?
Jdsk wrote: 27 Jul 2024, 10:44am
you don't here stories of mobile phones catching fire during flying any more. Have manufacturers improved the safety of phone batteries. It’s what we need to do to all lithium ion batteries.
Or of laptops. Or power tools. Or many of car-like objects, although every instance results in disproportionate overreporting.
So what's different about eBikes?
Two possibilities:
The batteries/ battery modules are inherently less safe.
The batteries/ battery modules are used/handled/charged/stored in less safe ways.
I'd put my money on the second as the probable big difference. And this is why it's crucial that we get better data on each adverse incident.
Look into the back of a builders van I’ve seen loads which blow a hole in your money, cordless tools handled and stored in safer ways. Often thrown into bags and crates along with many other hard, sharp and moveable objects. Used with cracked cases and liberal amounts of gaffer tape too.
How often are fires caused by batteries from power tools?
I'd guess that they differ from batteries used in eBikes in being smaller AND in not being commonly charged in DIY set-ups....
