Charging fire safety e bikes

[Jdsk]

"Father calls for e-bike safety after fatal fire":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd11gnqp27wo

"Man who survived ebike fire that killed his family fights for change to UK law":
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... -to-uk-law

No idea about the risk, battery bought secondhand online but doesn't say where, being charged under the stairs.

Jonathan

[Cowsham]

Never charge these batteries inside a house. At least in a shed you've got some separation. Fires can start charging any type of battery but li-polys go off like a flare and are very difficult to control.

[UpWrong]

Never charge these batteries inside a house. At least in a shed you've got some separation. Fires can start charging any type of battery but li-polys go off like a flare and are very difficult to control.

That assumes you have power in your shed. I charge mine in the attached garage and check on it regularly for signs of overheating. But I only have a 2A charger and the battery has never exhibited any warmth during charging.

[Cowsham]

Never charge these batteries inside a house. At least in a shed you've got some separation. Fires can start charging any type of battery but li-polys go off like a flare and are very difficult to control.

That assumes you have power in your shed. I charge mine in the attached garage and check on it regularly for signs of overheating. But I only have a 2A charger and the battery has never exhibited any warmth during charging.

That's good but I'd buy a metal box ( or find one at a local rubbish tip ) and use that to charge it in -- we were at the British iron works centre
https://www.britishironworkcentre.co.uk/
And we saw lots cast iron letter boxes for sale in one of the outside sheds -- some were damaged so had very low prices on eg £10 for a big cast iron box with hinged lid and hasp to push a bolt through so the explosion won't open the lid. Ideal for charging large bike batteries in.

Something like this but at about 10 pounds
https://www.britishironworkcentre.co.uk ... e-post-box

[Biospace]

I agree with everything except part of point 5 " don't charge regularly to 100% "

what is the evidence or the mechanism by which a lithium battery is damaged by doing this?

Lithium batteries degrade faster (eg loose capacity) due to chemical processes inside the battery:

• with time (calendar life)

• at higher temperatures

• at higher voltages for a prolonged time
  ...
  
  the image doesn't load. go to https://batteryuniversity.com/img/content/lithium2.jpg
  ...

Here's the image which doesn't work, since the link doesn't (for me) either,

Edit:
[two images removed since Cowsham pointed out the BU site doesn't permit hotlinking]


It would be very useful to have a laptop software which allowed for the batteries at around 80% SOC, rather than charging to full.

[Cowsham]

I agree with everything except part of point 5 " don't charge regularly to 100% "

what is the evidence or the mechanism by which a lithium battery is damaged by doing this?

Lithium batteries degrade faster (eg loose capacity) due to chemical processes inside the battery:

• with time (calendar life)

• at higher temperatures

• at higher voltages for a prolonged time
  ...
  
  the image doesn't load. go to https://batteryuniversity.com/img/content/lithium2.jpg
  ...

Here's the image which doesn't work, since the link doesn't (for me) either,


lithium2.jpg


And another useful graphic,


Screenshot 2024-06-12 at 16.21.49.png


It would be very useful to have a laptop software which allowed for the batteries at around 80% SOC, rather than charging to full.

The owner of this website (batteryuniversity.com) does not allow hotlinking to that resource (/img/content/lithium2.jpg).

[Biospace]

The owner of this website (batteryuniversity.com) does not allow hotlinking to that resource (/img/content/lithium2.jpg).

Correct - it wasn't clear which image you were referring to, which is why I put it up. Do you think they'll mind?

Edit - I see it's viewed by those in the know as poor netiquette, so will remove them.

[Jdsk]

It would be very useful to have a laptop software which allowed for the batteries at around 80% SOC, rather than charging to full.

MacBook:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/102338

iPhone:
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/108055

Tesla Model 3:
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/mode ... 24583B6758

Jonathan

[Cowsham]

The owner of this website (batteryuniversity.com) does not allow hotlinking to that resource (/img/content/lithium2.jpg).

Correct - it wasn't clear which image you were referring to, which is why I put it up. Do you think they'll mind?

Edit - I see it's viewed by those in the know as poor netiquette, so will remove them.

Had a look at that website and there are a lot of variables and discrepancies not accounted for which the owner does give a warning about ie some tests are not consistent ie some don't have the same parameters per test.

Real life account so far -- our car is now a year old and as far as I can tell has lost no miles per full charge yet. This maybe normal for a new battery car but I will update if I notice any change in the situation.

[Jdsk]

...
Real life account so far -- our car is now a year old and as far as I can tell has lost no miles per full charge yet. This maybe normal for a new battery car but I will update if I notice any change in the situation.

Thanks. That would be helpful: there's far too much misinformation and FUD in the BEV thread, and far too little sharing of those real-world findings.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

...
Real life account so far -- our car is now a year old and as far as I can tell has lost no miles per full charge yet. This maybe normal for a new battery car but I will update if I notice any change in the situation.

Thanks. That would be helpful: there's far too much misinformation and FUD in the BEV thread, and far too little sharing of those real-world findings.

Jonathan

That is not true, the thread has simply raised many real-world points which you appear to find hard to accept. Join in a healthy debate when your beliefs are challenged rather than retreating to make snipes from other threads.

To add some balance to Cowsham's anecdote, my experience with lithium batteries is that they are much better than what they replaced, but unfortunately still degrade with use and time - even if unused. I look forwards to one which doesn't.

[Biospace]

Never charge these batteries inside a house. At least in a shed you've got some separation. Fires can start charging any type of battery but li-polys go off like a flare and are very difficult to control.

When I tried a variety of ebikes, I was careful to charge them where a fire would be isolated. For the first few charges, I kept a more careful note of temperatures, even though the chargers and batteries were originals and therefore, I'd presume, compatible.

Perhaps a little education about batteries wouldn't go amiss, if more people were more aware of the energies involved and how what appears to be inconsequential damage to a casing may be hiding a potentially dangerous situation, chances of disaster could be reduced.

[Cowsham]

Never charge these batteries inside a house. At least in a shed you've got some separation. Fires can start charging any type of battery but li-polys go off like a flare and are very difficult to control.

When I tried a variety of ebikes, I was careful to charge them where a fire would be isolated.

Perhaps a little education about batteries wouldn't go amiss, if more people were more aware of the energies involved.

Exactly -- most people underestimate the ferocity of a lipo fire. Most of the battery turns into raw energy. The plastic case is incinerated very quickly and nothing is left except some foil.

I use a heavy metal box to charge in but with holes big enough so that the box itself doesn't become a bomb ie enough room for gases to escape safely in a direction that any flame won't ignite surrounding flammable materials.

[Jdsk]

"Safety warning as e-bikes grow in popularity":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyx5gqqlp59o

The linked advice from Avon Fire and Rescue:
https://www.avonfire.gov.uk/safety/home ... ers-bikes/

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

The coroner's action was a Report to prevent future deaths:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... lished.pdf

As far as I can tell it doesn't include any details about the battery or charger. It should.

Jonathan