Cycling UK Forum

Pinhead wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 6:48pm I was once told "ride in the gutter and be treated like dirt" , " MOVE OUT a yard" then you leave yourself room to move back

Good advice.

Pinhead wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 6:48pm I was once told "ride in the gutter and be treated like dirt" , " MOVE OUT a yard" then you leave yourself room to move back

Damn.. agreeing with so many people on this thread.

AliGlasgow wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 5:26pm

maximus meridius wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 5:14pm

cycle tramp wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 4:57pm

Yeah, but cyclists breaking the rules rarely kill anyone, whereas today 7 or 8 people have died in road collisions caused by motor vehicles breaking the rules, blatantly or otherwise....
I'll respect motorists more when they respect the speed limits more...

Interesting. In your quote of AliGlasgow he said nothing whatsoever about respecting, or not, motorists. He was talking about respecting cyclists. And he said that as a cyclist.

A nice bit of "whataboutery" you did there.

The sooner all road users, including cyclists, stop viewing other road users as discrete homogeneous groups, the better we will all be.

And I agree, there are a lot of lousy cyclists out there, who do the things AliGlasgow described.

Just to clarify I am female not male (you've misgendered me! )

Deepest apologies. You may not believe me, but I do always consider that. Honestly, look over some of my past posts. So I considered before I typed "he" and thought "Ali", as in male name of south asian/middle east origin.

cycle tramp wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 5:54pm Ha! It is your turn again..

I'm not playing your stupid game. I'll let somebody else tell you the many reasons why the things you quote are actually dangerous.

In the meantime, you win, everything you say is true, all your opinions are completely correct. You have no need to reflect upon what you say or even consider that you could just, potentially, ever, be incorrect.

There, you may sleep the serene sleep of the righteous.

maximus meridius wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 8:09pm
Deepest apologies. You may not believe me, but I do always consider that. Honestly, look over some of my past posts. So I considered before I typed "he" and thought "Ali", as in male name of south asian/middle east origin.

No need to apologise I used a shortened version of my name - Alison and know it's not clear. I was gently poking fun at you really

Why, then, do cars coming up from behind (who could obviously pass me leaving just as much space) typically hesitate, sometime for ages, before overtaking? There's usually plenty of visibility ahead, so it's not a case of having to wait to be sure there isn't another vehicle approaching

Plenty of view for whom?

As a cyclist you'll have a better view than most car drivers (unless you're on a 'bent)
You're obstructing their view
They might want to see that you appear competent

Bottom line, don't knock it

tim-b wrote: ↑8 Sep 2023, 6:01amPlenty of view for whom?

Plenty of view for the motorist.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear ...

My approach to this oft encountered problem is to take the middle of the lane, wobble and look scared.

This has two effects, firstly it alerts the driver to the possibility that he's not leaving enough room for a vulnerable road user and secondly (and possibly more importantly for the driver) raises the distinct possibility that his car may get scratched.

Even the one or two psychopaths I've met who refuse to yield space have been forced to slow down

I never engage in conversation with the driver as only the most self confident individuals will ever admit to doing anything wrong.

There are a couple of rules from the HC that apply here.

Highway Code wrote: Rule 163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
...
give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
...

Rule 213
On narrow sections of road, on quiet roads or streets, at road junctions and in slower-moving traffic, cyclists may sometimes ride in the centre of the lane, rather than towards the side of the road. It can be safer for groups of cyclists to ride two abreast in these situations. Allow them to do so for their own safety, to ensure they can see and be seen. Cyclists are also advised to ride at least a door’s width or 1 metre from parked cars for their own safety.

On narrow sections of road, horse riders may ride in the centre of the lane. Allow them to do so for their own safety to ensure they can see and be seen.

Motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders and horse drawn vehicles may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... 159-to-203

So, rule 163, even though it is for overtaking, includes information (for the van driver) about encountering oncoming traffic when going around obstructions.

And rule 213 shows us that taking the lane and forcing the van driver to stop was exactly the right thing to do for your own safety.

Mike Sales wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 6:09pm

maximus meridius wrote: ↑7 Sep 2023, 5:14pm The sooner all road users, including cyclists, stop viewing other road users as discrete homogeneous groups, the better we will all be.

And I agree, there are a lot of lousy cyclists out there, who do the things AliGlasgow described.

The thing is, I find it safest to assume that a driver who could threaten my life if s/he does the wrong thing, is a member of the sub group of dangerous or careless drivers.
Coming up to a pinch point I take the lane to avoid being squeezed.
If I see a car coming up to the T junction where I have priority, I move out a little to give more dodge room. This saved me twice in one week.
If I hear a car slowing as it overtakes when I am about to turn left, then I take the corner wide to discourage a left hook.
It is impossible to know what variety of driver you are meeting.
I do not subscribe to the idea that certain makes of car are generally badly driven, and anyway I cannot tell one make from another, except by reading the badge.
A distrust of drivers thus becomes habitual.

I'm very wary of other road users, and try to think in advance what I'm going to do if they endanger me in any way.

But I don't feel any need to categorise them into groups or subgroups or varieties or to engage in any divisive othering. It doesn't add anything to my safety.

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: ↑8 Sep 2023, 8:27amBut I don't feel any need to categorise them into groups or subgroups or varieties or to engage in any divisive othering. It doesn't add anything to my safety.

I find it helps to categorise drivers into those who are driving a vehicle that's capable of killing you, and those who aren't.

Oh, hang on ...

That street looks familiar. Hydland/West End/Dowanhill?

Regardless - in that type of street I would be right in the middle of the lane. Traffic should be under 20mph. If I met an oncoming vehicle I would slow to walking pace or stop until the van stopped. Then get carefully past with a wave to acknowledge the driver.

It isn't safe topass a van at 20mph. What would he have done with a meeting a car instead of a bike. What if you hit a pothole just before going past.

I also agree that the 1.5 meters is irrelevant. We are looking at an oncoming vehicle on your side of the road and I agree with what has been said in that respect.

Around Hampshire there are a lot of minor roads which have become effectively single file with the increased size of vehicles so it becomes a sort of no mans land. You could say that I fit on my half of the road but no oncoming car fits on their side.This is compounded by the continual degradation of each side of the road.

These sides have become in effect intermittent narrow gravel additions and there is a tendency for oncoming vehicles to attempt to bully you into using these as passing places so that they can sweep past.

My approach, as it happens so often, is to go as near the edge of the made up road as is safe bearing in mind the road condition, in effect on my half of the road. This always means there is insufficient room for them to pass and they usually pull off on the gravel on their side to allow me to pass.

I do watch their speed as they approach though and if I have any doubts as to whether or not they will pull over I do stop on a suitable bit of gravel but I would not continue riding on it on road tyres.

There is no doubt I get treated quite differently to an oncoming car but I suppose with current drivers that is inevitable.

Jdsk wrote: ↑8 Sep 2023, 8:27am

But I don't feel any need to categorise them into groups or subgroups or varieties or to engage in any divisive othering. It doesn't add anything to my safety.

Jonathan

DaveReading expresses my view pithily.

DaveReading wrote: ↑8 Sep 2023, 9:51am

Jdsk wrote: ↑8 Sep 2023, 8:27amBut I don't feel any need to categorise them into groups or subgroups or varieties or to engage in any divisive othering. It doesn't add anything to my safety.

I find it helps to categorise drivers into those who are driving a vehicle that's capable of killing you, and those who aren't.

Oh, hang on ...

That's a categorisation based on vehicles rather than drivers. And type of vehicle and other objects on or near the road that I'm about to use is a major part of the risks that I consider in trying to make progress safe for me and for anyone on the back.

I think that we're agreeing.

Jonathan