Page 2 of 3
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 16 Sep 2023, 5:09pm
by PH
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 16 Sep 2023, 5:38pm
by cycle tramp
Should shopping trolleys have day time running times and make a beep beep sound when moving forward. and play a message when they reverse 'this shopping trolley is reversing.... this shopping trolley is reversing'..?
Perhaps even have rubber mounted bumpers damaging car paint....?
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 16 Sep 2023, 6:02pm
by cycle tramp
Well actually it is very rare, as there are between 3 to 6 fatalities as a result of collisions between biking riders and pedestrians. Mostly as a result of fallng and a percentage, especially of those who are elderly of complications resulting from the initial fall, after the event.
The very fact that they have made tabloid news indicates the the stories are newsworthy.
Of the above stories the common theme in all cases were that the bike riders were travelling too fast for the conditions. Something that any member of this forum is likely to be doing.
Sadly what won't make the headlines is that another 8 people today have died as a result of motor vehicle collisions, of these 8, statistically 2 or 3 of these deaths will be pedestrians. They will never make the tabloid first pages and their deaths may even go unreported by their local newspaper.
And you're seriously worried about cyclists putting a dent in your car?
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 16 Sep 2023, 6:14pm
by Mike Sales
cycle tramp wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 6:02pm
And you're seriously worried about cyclists putting a dent in your car?
This is characteristic of drivers wittering on about insurance for cyclists. Implicitly, and often explicitly, it is their paintwork they are worried about. We cyclists, when a collision with a motor is possible, are worried first of all about flesh, blood and bones. These may or may not heal, but money is a poor reperation. Money is only good for a bit of paint and panel beating. I do worry that insurance is another way that careless and aggressive drivers are protected from the consequences of their actions.
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 16 Sep 2023, 9:24pm
by cycle tramp
Pinhead wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 4:14pm
maximus meridius wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 1:41pm
Pinhead wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 1:10pm
This will annoy the odd few who are against all things but here we go
let us be honest ALL of us if injured or had our car damaged by a cyclist WOULD want them to be insured.
I would sue.
How did it work the last time you sued? Was it successful? Did you find the process easy?
I have sued ELEVEN companies and three people over the years, County and Small claims including Samsung UK and won every time
At this point it's worth remembering a couple of details, should a car driver seek to sue a cyclist for damages following a collision;
Firstly - the cyclist or bike ride has to be seen to be at fault, in other words the collision was their fault and if this is not established by the Police then at this point forward it gets very expensive for both parties as a court might have to be established as to who was at fault. However if the Police have already recorded that the motorist is at fault then any claim by them is likely to fail.
Secondly- the motorist has to reasonably prove that the collision resulted in the damage for which they are claiming - again this could get expensive for both parties very quickly, if its disputed...
The moral of this story is that if you are cycling without insurance and find yourself in a collision, it's going to be worth calling the police, and not admitting any liability to anyone what so ever, its also going to be worth taking photos of the vehicle that you were in collision with, of the damage which was allegedly caused*. Its also going to be worth (in a very big and definite way) getting further advice from a legal professional about the situation as soon as possible. It's also definitely going to be worth writing everything down as soon as you can for your own records... of course all the above is written in respect that you the cyclist or bike rider isn't to badly hurt or shaken up..
Whilst it is tempting to give a false name and address to a motorist (I am Mr Svetti Bolz of 69 Small Thatch, Ladie Garden..) its illegal and might harm your legal defence later....
(*Having worked with an insurance team, it's not uncommon for something like a slight dent or a deep scratch to suddenly become 'a complete respray' as reported by the motorist who suffered the damage).
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 3:47pm
by Pinhead
cycle tramp wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 9:24pm
Pinhead wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 4:14pm
maximus meridius wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 1:41pm
How did it work the last time you sued? Was it successful? Did you find the process easy?
I have sued ELEVEN companies and three people over the years, County and Small claims including Samsung UK and won every time
At this point it's worth remembering a couple of details, should a car driver seek to sue a cyclist for damages following a collision;
Firstly - the cyclist or bike ride has to be seen to be at fault, in other words the collision was their fault and if this is not established by the Police then at this point forward it gets very expensive for both parties as a court might have to be established as to who was at fault. However if the Police have already recorded that the motorist is at fault then any claim by them is likely to fail.
Secondly- the motorist has to reasonably prove that the collision resulted in the damage for which they are claiming - again this could get expensive for both parties very quickly, if its disputed...
The moral of this story is that if you are cycling without insurance and find yourself in a collision, it's going to be worth calling the police, and not admitting any liability to anyone what so ever, its also going to be worth taking photos of the vehicle that you were in collision with, of the damage which was allegedly caused*. Its also going to be worth (in a very big and definite way) getting further advice from a legal professional about the situation as soon as possible. It's also definitely going to be worth writing everything down as soon as you can for your own records... of course all the above is written in respect that you the cyclist or bike rider isn't to badly hurt or shaken up..
Whilst it is tempting to give a false name and address to a motorist (I am Mr Svetti Bolz of 69 Small Thatch, Ladie Garden..) its illegal and might harm your legal defence later....
(*Having worked with an insurance team, it's not uncommon for something like a slight dent or a deep scratch to suddenly become 'a complete respray' as reported by the motorist who suffered the damage).
1. Dashcam I have front and rear so do others and remember witnesses
2. Small claims court CHEAP
3. Can't fight dashcam
4. Again cars have dashcams better to have insurance
5. Take images
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 3:47pm
by Pinhead
Mike Sales wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 6:14pm
cycle tramp wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 6:02pm
And you're seriously worried about cyclists putting a dent in your car?
This is characteristic of drivers wittering on about insurance for cyclists. Implicitly, and often explicitly, it is their paintwork they are worried about. We cyclists, when a collision with a motor is possible, are worried first of all about flesh, blood and bones. These may or may not heal, but money is a poor reperation. Money is only good for a bit of paint and panel beating. I do worry that insurance is another way that careless and aggressive drivers are protected from the consequences of their actions.
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 3:49pm
by Pinhead
cycle tramp wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 6:02pm
Well actually it is very rare, as there are between 3 to 6 fatalities as a result of collisions between biking riders and pedestrians. Mostly as a result of fallng and a percentage, especially of those who are elderly of complications resulting from the initial fall, after the event.
The very fact that they have made tabloid news indicates the the stories are newsworthy.
Of the above stories the common theme in all cases were that the bike riders were travelling too fast for the conditions. Something that any member of this forum is likely to be doing.
Sadly what won't make the headlines is that another 8 people today have died as a result of motor vehicle collisions, of these 8, statistically 2 or 3 of these deaths will be pedestrians. They will never make the tabloid first pages and their deaths may even go unreported by their local newspaper.
And you're seriously worried about cyclists putting a dent in your car?
https://www.jerseyeveningpost.com/motor ... es-reveal/
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 3:50pm
by Pinhead
As usual the people have gone off topic,
Reminder
This will annoy the odd few who are against all things but here we go
I have ALWAYS had bike insurance, that is public liability and personal accident, why, because should I hit a car or person or animal I am covered by insurance, especially now I have e bikes, let us be honest ALL of us if injured or had our car damaged by a cyclist WOULD want them to be insured. I would sue.
Therefore, would compulsory insurance be a good thing.
Many people moan about insurance, it is as my father used to say "Insurance is a con UNTIL you NEED it"
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 4:54pm
by drossall
I've always thought it was significant that you can get cycle insurance effectively free of charge, which is perhaps a measurement of the actual level of (financial) risk. Try that with your motoring insurance! Various bodies, including Cycling UK, offer third-party liability cover with membership. Domestic insurance may throw in some cover for accidents etc. (I found mine did when I had a bike-on-bike crash, and a bystander suggested claiming for the damage). And so on. So, for cyclists, not to have taken out insurance is not the same thing as being uninsured.
I suspect this comes under the heading of things that would be massively more expensive to enforce than the benefits would justify. The government might well find it cheaper to pay the cost of damage caused by cyclists than to force us all to take out insurance. Not suggesting they should (I don't believe that); it's just that governments do need to have a certain amount of real-world cost-benefit analysis in mind.
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 5:22pm
by PH
Pinhead wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023, 3:50pm
I have ALWAYS had bike insurance, that is public liability and personal accident, why, because should I hit a car or person or animal I am covered by insurance, especially now I have e bikes, let us be honest ALL of us if injured or had our car damaged by a cyclist WOULD want them to be insured. I would sue.
My comment and link about shopping trolley accidents wan't entirely in jest. There are lots of scenarios as we go through life where we could potentially be liable for some claim, where we could possibly have caused damage to some individual or their property. So maybe it would be a good idea to have a general PL policy. Many of us have, they come bundled with various other things, enhanced bank accounts, union membership, household insurance. That they're a free add on indicates, as drossall points out, the likelihood of them being called upon. There's also the possibility that someone knowing you have insurance to claim against, may be more inclined to sue, or maybe it's the opposite and someone knowing you have a legal team to contest the claim is less likely... I don't know. I do think the potential is to alter the way people regard the sort of mishap that could happen to anyone.
Compulsory for bikes, no. I can see the sense in it, but it's so rarely needed the barrier it would add to people just riding outweighs it. Plus as already mentioned the administration would be costlier than the insurance.
If you want to campaign for something worthwhile, then policing the thousands of uninsured drivers would be a better target.
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 5:27pm
by Mike Sales
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 5:30pm
by Mike Sales
It annoys me when insurance companies claim that paying them money protects you.
"Protect' means to keep safe. Insurance only protects your bank account.
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 5:40pm
by PH
For anyone looking for bike specific PL insurance, there's the LAKA Club for £1.50 a month
https://laka.co/gb/club
By my rough calculations, half of that is going to be retained by LAKA, the minimum personal injury claim for which you can get a conditional fee agreement is £5,000, with the average probably at least double that, the solicitors fees are likely to be at least 50%, they will have built in at least a 50% contingency, so the assessment seems to be that on average there'll be one claim per three thousand years cycling.
Re: Bike insurance
Posted: 17 Sep 2023, 5:53pm
by cycle tramp
Missing: my will to live... last seen somewhere on this forum. Its furry and multicoloured. If anyone has seen it, please let me know through the usual channels...