Cycling UK Forum

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 10:14am

Pinhead wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 4:31pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 9:49am
In case of what? For what purpose?

Ian

You think about it !

You asked a vague question. Why should I be thinking about and guessing what you intended to ask?

Cameras can serve many different purposes, it is reasonable for me to ask exactly what purposes your question related to asn your response "You think about it !" is rude and daft.

Ian

As you stated (therefore thinking about it "Cameras can serve many different purposes"

cycle tramp wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 1:47pm

Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 1:37pm I like CONTROVERSY too -- have done since 1981

https://youtu.be/YmHcIYmWWrw?feature=shared

Um... ..I might be seen as being more controversial if my posts weren't removed... and to be fair these weren't meant as statements of controversy but more open questions, like... should we have marriages for more than two consenting adults?
(This post will self destruct in.. ten, nine..)

Thought it was Pinhead that started the topic

Re: I do like controversy, so CAMERAS

Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 3:20pm

cycle tramp wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 1:47pm

Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 1:37pm I like CONTROVERSY too -- have done since 1981

https://youtu.be/YmHcIYmWWrw?feature=shared

Um... ..I might be seen as being more controversial if my posts weren't removed... and to be fair these weren't meant as statements of controversy but more open questions, like... should we have marriages for more than two consenting adults?
(This post will self destruct in.. ten, nine..)

Thought it was Pinhead that started the topic

Re: I do like controversy, so CAMERAS

Oh yes it was...... however, thinking about the whole camera thing it would be rather churlish not to say 'Thank you' to those who have gone out of their way to buy and fit cameras to their bikes and actually use their free time to report other road users who are driving carelessly and inconsiderately - not only have they may have saved lives, but they may have actually stopped other those drivers from messing up their own lives as well...

Thank you

Pinhead wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 2:56pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 10:14am

Pinhead wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023, 4:31pm

You think about it !

You asked a vague question. Why should I be thinking about and guessing what you intended to ask?

Cameras can serve many different purposes, it is reasonable for me to ask exactly what purposes your question related to asn your response "You think about it !" is rude and daft.

Ian

As you stated (therefore thinking about it "Cameras can serve many different purposes"

So I ask again, what aspect is you poll relating to?

I've been cycling for quite a few years UK and Europe so to tell me to "You think about it !" is just rude when you were the one asking the unqualified question - which you still wont clarify. Makes the entire poll a complete waste of time as different people will be answering different questions or considering different uses.

I assume you were once a teacher as the vague poll and then "Think about it" is a bit like being back at school and being set homework.

Ian

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 5:25pm

Pinhead wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 2:56pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 10:14am
You asked a vague question. Why should I be thinking about and guessing what you intended to ask?

Cameras can serve many different purposes, it is reasonable for me to ask exactly what purposes your question related to asn your response "You think about it !" is rude and daft.

Ian

As you stated (therefore thinking about it "Cameras can serve many different purposes"

So I ask again, what aspect is you poll relating to?

I've been cycling for quite a few years UK and Europe so to tell me to "You think about it !" is just rude when you were the one asking the unqualified question - which you still wont clarify. Makes the entire poll a complete waste of time as different people will be answering different questions or considering different uses.

Ah, sorry... if I may interjected here. I believe our resident Cenobite believes that the fitment of cameras is good practice as any recording taken by them may assist the cycle rider in establishing guilt should any wrong doing take place.
Personally I believe it depends in the area in which you ride, and there would be other things I would consider before fitting cameras, such as reading cycle craft manuals, perhaps fitting a bike mirror and/or an orange spacer flag.. however all these things are secondary to the fundamental aspect of road use, understand the risks, and understand the intentions of those using the road around you..

As a post script to this a camera may be affective at providing evidence, but ideally I'd try and place myself in a position where it is simply not needed.

cycle tramp wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 10:08pm

Psamathe wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 5:25pm

Pinhead wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 2:56pm

As you stated (therefore thinking about it "Cameras can serve many different purposes"

So I ask again, what aspect is you poll relating to?

I've been cycling for quite a few years UK and Europe so to tell me to "You think about it !" is just rude when you were the one asking the unqualified question - which you still wont clarify. Makes the entire poll a complete waste of time as different people will be answering different questions or considering different uses.

Ah, sorry... if I may interjected here. I believe our resident Cenobite believes that the fitment of cameras is good practice as any recording taken by them may assist the cycle rider in establishing guilt should any wrong doing take place....

Then why can't he/she say it rather than start telling people to "think about it" when asked!!

Ian

Psamathe wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 10:55am
Then why can't he/she say it rather than start telling people to "think about it" when asked!!

Ian

Ah, that may very well be the autism. When I was on the 'phones for the council, some of our more frequent callers held the same neurological traits. In some cases there was an expectation that you instantly knew everything about them and the reason for their call, the moment they gave their name... and then got intensely frustrated when you asked for some more details.. they then got even more frustrated when you advised them that you've spoken to over 20 people this morning alone and just needed a bit more information to help track the progress of their case that they were calling in about.

I sadly suspect that people with autism may spend alot of time feeling frustrated.

cycle tramp wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 12:30pm
Ah, that may very well be the autism. When I was on the 'phones for the council, some of our more frequent callers held the same neurological traits. In some cases there was an expectation that you instantly knew everything about them and the reason for their call, the moment they gave their name... and then got intensely frustrated when you asked for some more details.. they then got even more frustrated when you advised them that you've spoken to over 20 people this morning alone and just needed a bit more information to help track the progress of their case that they were calling in about.

I sadly suspect that people with autism may spend alot of time feeling frustrated.

There is also a very wide spectrum when it comes to autism.

Some, like my nephew are severely autistic and it is plainly obvious that something is not quite right. Unfortunately it probably never will be. My sister gets on with it, but it does cause her concern about what will happen to her son when she departs.

Others have quite mild symptons which border on just being basically anti social, controversial a-holes. I, like probably thousands of others, am probably slightly on the autistic spectrum if I could be bothered getting diagnosed, but I don't need an excuse for being an a-hole. Hope that makes sense!

SimonCelsa wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 7:07pm

cycle tramp wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 12:30pm
Ah, that may very well be the autism.

I sadly suspect that people with autism may spend alot of time feeling frustrated.

There is also a very wide spectrum when it comes to autism.

Some, like my nephew are severely autistic and it is plainly obvious that something is not quite right. Unfortunately it probably never will be. My sister gets on with it, but it does cause her concern about what will happen to her son when she departs.

Others have quite mild symptons which border on just being basically anti social, controversial a-holes. I, like probably thousands of others, am probably slightly on the autistic spectrum if I could be bothered getting diagnosed, but I don't need an excuse for being an a-hole. Hope that makes sense!

It's must be a worry. My nephew is at the 'can not live independently and will physically attack you if he gets frustrated' end of the autism scale. With council cuts looming, it could be that his living unit is under threat. My brother is deeply concerned that he'll have no one to look after him later in life and may even end up on the street.

As far as I understand everyone is on the autistic spectrum, although for most of us it's at the point where it doesn't affect social and communication skills...

However I am some way up the @r$£hole spectrum.. apparently I can get therapy for this, but... y'know do I really want to take that risk of not being an @r$£hole....? It would mean things like I'll have to start considering other people's views and emotions... and not talking about myself so much..

cycle tramp wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 10:08pm As a post script to this a camera may be affective at providing evidence, but ideally I'd try and place myself in a position where it is simply not needed.

I’ve always cycled in that manner. In twenty years of commuting in a city and forty years on two wheels I’ve had only 1 vehicle collision but even that wasn’t severe enough to result in injury or damage (the driver behind me assumed I had moved off after stopping at a junction).
However, as I stated earlier in this thread, some situations really are unavoidable.

The only reason I got one is, I was knocked off my bike by a driver that "Didn't see you mate". I think a lot of people do the same, they get one after the fact.

cycle tramp wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 10:08pm

Ah, sorry... if I may interjected here. I believe our resident Cenobite believes that the fitment of cameras is good practice as any recording taken by them may assist the cycle rider in establishing guilt should any wrong doing take place.
Personally I believe it depends in the area in which you ride, and there would be other things I would consider before fitting cameras, such as reading cycle craft manuals, perhaps fitting a bike mirror and/or an orange spacer flag.. however all these things are secondary to the fundamental aspect of road use, understand the risks, and understand the intentions of those using the road around you..

As a post script to this a camera may be affective at providing evidence, but ideally I'd try and place myself in a position where it is simply not needed.

The problem with the wording of 'good practise' is that it immediately creates the concept of 'bad practice' Where would that leave us as cyclists, police and insurance refusing to help on the grounds that the rider did not have entire video footage?

Considering the hierarchy of road users, I would make it good practice for larger vehicles to have cameras fitted, may be even law that they should always have the last 4 hours of driving available to the police and courts - it is far far easier to have a permanently fitted and operating camera in a £150,000 wagon than on a little bicycle.

The problem with the wording of 'good practise' is that it immediately creates the concept of 'bad practice' Where would that leave us as cyclists, police and insurance refusing to help on the grounds that the rider did not have entire video footage?

That’s why I voted “no”.

‘Good practice’ has slightly different meanings in different contexts (I cited one), but the upshot is always that not following good practice is to fall short of reasonable, or legally stipulated, expectations in one way or another.

I still don’t think that using cameras to record events on a bike ride gets anywhere near being necessary to fulfil reasonable or legally stipulated expectations. It might be a good idea for some riders in some circumstances, but that’s about as far as it goes.

If was decided that it was “good practice”, it logically ought to become a “should” in the Highway Code, which I struggle to imagine anyone thinking would be appropriate. Quite apart from anything else, it would raise yet another ‘bar to entry’ for many people on grounds of cost and complexity - not everyone can afford cameras, and I can imagine that a good few people who currently get around by bike either don’t have the kit, or don’t have the skills to download images anyway.

Before anyone asks, I don’t even think filming events on rides constitutes “best practice”, i.e. a notch above basic expectations, IMO it’s an option for some, which can be a good idea in some circumstances, no more than that.

I thought about fitting a camera to my bike but decided against it. The purpose was not to film near misses and then use the recording for evidence, rather to film my rides then publish them somewhere. After thinking about how much desk work would be required and the likely audience for such tedium, I decided against it on the grounds that it would reduce not increase my enjoyment of cycling by making it more complicated. Instead I spent the money colleagues kindly collected for my recent retirement on a very fancy manual coffee grinder which I can use every morning while I remember them and the good times we had together,

Maybe my perspective here in Germany is different?

plancashire wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023, 11:37am I thought about fitting a camera to my bike but decided against it. The purpose was not to film near misses and then use the recording for evidence, rather to film my rides then publish them somewhere. After thinking about how much desk work would be required and the likely audience for such tedium, I decided against it on the grounds that it would reduce not increase my enjoyment of cycling by making it more complicated. Instead I spent the money colleagues kindly collected for my recent retirement on a very fancy manual coffee grinder which I can use every morning while I remember them and the good times we had together,

Maybe my perspective here in Germany is different?

Seems a very sensible, balanced pov. I have similar with fishing - there seems to be a real proclivity for filming and (often) publishing everything on trips. The good bits I always remember - and the bad bits too of course, that's when real character is formed!