Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

[simonhill]

I'll do a bunch of photos including some internal inspection stuff when I get round to it but need to sort the new one out first -

cheers,
Bruce.

Thanks Bruce.
When you get round to it, could you please quote me, or message me otherwise I might miss it. Currently riding one of my LHTs in far off lands. Ta.

[brucelee]

Here are some photos
left side with lower cup

right side with lower cup

The crack goes right up to the top tube weld, is this worth doing ?
looking at stuff like https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115866877217, and maybe use silver braze for the lower temperature. Need a bit of metal to go with it, can't think of a donor source - there maybe something in my bits box that's suitable, any ideas ?
There's also a wrought iron place down the road, do you think they'd have a go ?
Cheers,
Bruce.

[markjohnobrien]

........I had a steel top tube fail towards the front of the bike. I thought the handling feels a bit odd......

that looks like a Dawes from the 1990s.. They were notorious for the top tube rotting out

cheers
Brucey

Why were they notorious for rotting out? Love to know more.

I say as I have a Dawes One Down 631 from the late 90’s and a Dawes Galaxy from early 2000’s (foreign built - probably Vietnam).

Didn’t they rust proof their frames properly like Raleigh Special Products frames.

[markjohnobrien]

So far so good ...
IMG_20231016_090639.jpg

Oooh: looks very nice. Great colour.

[Carlton green]

I can’t help but think that the OP should post his pictures to Argos in Bristol (not too far from him in Cardiff) and see what they suggest in the way of repair, strengthening, general restoration and refinishing. Unless the total costs (£30 remove and refit headset races + £200 for a new down tube + £250 for a respray + time and travel costs, etc.) come in well under a comparable new frame then scrapping the old LHT frame seems the logical way forward.

Is there additional damage that is not yet visible? Could a cheaper repair be done by someone else? Possibly to both. Any repair won’t be free and good work rarely comes cheap; the very most that the OP would save (if the job was free) is * circa £500. A further frame failure, for any reason, could result in both injury and inconvenience, and rebuilds take a lot of (valuable) time and effort.

I don’t throw money around but IMHO a cheap repair job is too likely to result in some poor outcome(s) - false economy.

The damaged LHT frame and good forks might have an open market value (spares and repairs) which could potentially be offset against the cost of a replacement frame.

In general I’d consider a new Spa frame to be a better proposition than nearly any repaired frame.

* A Spa Wayfarer frame set is circa £500.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p3 ... r-Frameset

https://argoscycles.com/resprays-refurb/price-lists/

[531colin]

Why were they notorious for rotting out? Love to know more……

Because the brake cable conducted water into the top tube

[531colin]

[quote=brucelee post_id=1805288 time=1698511836 user_id=7743
The crack goes right up to the top tube weld….
[/quote]
Is that the weld between the top tube and head tube?
Or do you mean the crack goes to the top of the weld between the down tube and head tube?

[markjohnobrien]

Why were they notorious for rotting out? Love to know more……

Because the brake cable conducted water into the top tube

Thank you.

[Brucey]

I'k get the MIG welder out and have at it. As with any repair [using any technique] it isn't a bad idea to keep an eye on it afterwards

[Carlton green]

I'k get the MIG welder out and have at it. As with any repair [using any technique] it isn't a bad idea to keep an eye on it afterwards

IIRC you used to be professionally involved with welding …

[Brucey]

yes I did but I don't consider myself to be especially skilful or anything

[brucelee]

The crack goes right up to the top tube weld….

Is that the weld between the top tube and head tube?
Or do you mean the crack goes to the top of the weld between the down tube and head tube?

Sorry, meant head tube/down tube weld.

[brucelee]

I can’t help but think that the OP should post his pictures to Argos in Bristol (not too far from him in Cardiff) and see what they suggest in the way of repair, strengthening, general restoration and refinishing. Unless the total costs (£30 remove and refit headset races + £200 for a new down tube + £250 for a respray + time and travel costs, etc.) come in well under a comparable new frame then scrapping the old LHT frame seems the logical way forward.

Is there additional damage that is not yet visible? Could a cheaper repair be done by someone else? Possibly to both. Any repair won’t be free and good work rarely comes cheap; the very most that the OP would save (if the job was free) is * circa £500. A further frame failure, for any reason, could result in both injury and inconvenience, and rebuilds take a lot of (valuable) time and effort.

I don’t throw money around but IMHO a cheap repair job is too likely to result in some poor outcome(s) - false economy.

The damaged LHT frame and good forks might have an open market value (spares and repairs) which could potentially be offset against the cost of a replacement frame.

In general I’d consider a new Spa frame to be a better proposition than nearly any repaired frame.

* A Spa Wayfarer frame set is circa £500.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p3 ... r-Frameset

https://argoscycles.com/resprays-refurb/price-lists/

Yea I replaced it with a wayfarer (shown above), thought I'd keep it as a spare if I could fix it cheap. Spoke to the argos guys but I don't think it's worth a fancy job if it's going to end up as a beater. Just needs to be strong, then I'll just chuck hammerite over it.
Cheers,
Bruce.

[brucelee]

I'k get the MIG welder out and have at it. As with any repair [using any technique] it isn't a bad idea to keep an eye on it afterwards

Don't have a MIG welder and wouldn't feel confident at trying this as my first attempt. The reason I thought of braising is the gear is cheap (£29+a rod & flux) and much lower probability of screwing it up - it's less time sensitive. I know that these sorts of steel are designed for welding, would heading them to braising temperatures weaken them ?
Cheers,
Bruce.

[Brucey]

the real problem with your proposed braze repair ['braising' is cooking BTW] is that it is very unlikely to be strong enough unless you use an additional piece of metal as a patch.