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Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 10 Oct 2023, 6:38pm
by brucelee
Been dreading this day but always preparing for it. The frame has cracked on the down tube about an inch from the top. I notice almost all new bikes and frames have re-enforcement here now. Anyway need a replacement in a hurry so canvasing for suggestions. Always thought the frame was a bit big for me and have a very short stem (I'm 6'2"). The bike has an e-bike conversion - hub type, I've mounted the battery on the rack. The obvious choice is
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p3 ... r-Frameset
or
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p2 ... r-Frameset
There are also TI options on special offer at SPA though I don't really get the TI thing and I'm worried about fork compatability.
I'm sort of aware of the thorn club tour - anyone got an opinion on the there will be a quality difference ?
Anyone know if there's NOS LHT's around (not second hand)
Anyone suggest alternatives to the above ?
Super fast responses would be really appreciated - I need to order tomorrow morning to catch the retailers delivery cut off.
Cheers,
Bruce.

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 10 Oct 2023, 6:48pm
by Brucey
I would weld repair the old frame

cheers
Brucey

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 7:50am
by pwa
If steel meets your needs (i.e. rust has never been a big problem for your bikes) stick with steel. I have had Spa and Thorn, and Thorn cost more without being better, so Spa would be my choice. Rim or disc brakes is a choice you have to make yourself, really.

Or weld and repaint the old frame. (Colin has designed in the extra metal plate in that area on the Spa frames to prevent the failure you experienced).

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 9:21am
by 531colin
Spa are also listing Trucker frames in both rim and disc brake; I didn’t check size availability.
Do you want rim or disc brakes?
Wayfarer might come with both mounts, but I would check that by phone, with somebody actually looking at the available frames, not just going by paperwork.
I think the Truckers are horizontal top tube and the Spa designs slope, so you need a smaller “size” in Spa. Forks will come with uncut steerer.
It’s too long ago for my memory to be trusted, but I think Surly used the same tube diameter for all sizes, and I designed with bigger tubes for the bigger bikes; so Spa with a more compact frame and bigger tubes will be more rigid
What do you mean by “ fork compatibility “?
Wayfarer won’t play nice with a Trucker fork, the steering geometry is different….. I can’t guarantee SpaTourer will either, but I think you get a frameset ie. fork included

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 9:49am
by brucelee
I'm gonna do both - get a wayfarer and someone to weld the LHT :
Have you got a link to colins post ?
Haven't got the skills or gear to do it myself, anyone know someone in the Cardiff area who can do this - I'll strip the frame but the headset is never coming out.
Cheers,
Bruce.

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 9:57am
by brucelee
531colin wrote: 11 Oct 2023, 9:21am Spa are also listing Trucker frames in both rim and disc brake; I didn’t check size availability.
Do you want rim or disc brakes?
Wayfarer might come with both mounts, but I would check that by phone, with somebody actually looking at the available frames, not just going by paperwork.
I think the Truckers are horizontal top tube and the Spa designs slope, so you need a smaller “size” in Spa. Forks will come with uncut steerer.
It’s too long ago for my memory to be trusted, but I think Surly used the same tube diameter for all sizes, and I designed with bigger tubes for the bigger bikes; so Spa with a more compact frame and bigger tubes will be more rigid
What do you mean by “ fork compatibility “?
Wayfarer won’t play nice with a Trucker fork, the steering geometry is different….. I can’t guarantee SpaTourer will either, but I think you get a frameset ie. fork included
I've ordered a 58cm wayfarer fork and frame, I checked it's got both brake mounts - fingers crossed....

I only noticed the crack by luck - it may have been there for some time... The crack goes about 2/3 of the way round the tube and I'm wondering if it's OK to ride slowly : I've run out of cookies and need to go shopping. What's the outcome if it breaks at low speed and will this make the welding repair more difficult if the tubes need to be re-aligned ? is it likely to damage the other tubes ?
Cheers,
Bruce.

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 10:22am
by 531colin
If it fails, outcome is a face-plant and a totally wrecked frame. You might have to forgo the cookies!
Generally the Spa disc brake frames will have the typical small reinforcement plate under the Dow tube/ head tube join

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 10:39am
by brucelee
Another possible gotcha just occurred to me : I'm currently using an up hanger like https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m7b0s101p18 ... ver-Brakes and I've always been a bit worried about the amount of stress these put on the fork crown and the force exerted by the bolt that holds it in place. I got away with it on the LHT despite the fact that it was never designed to have brakes attached here only mudguards. I think the same is true of the wayfarer. So did I just get lucky with the LHT and should I be doing this ? Brakes are Tiagra road levers with tektro oryx.

Cheers,
Bruce.

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 10:58am
by Pinhead
brucelee wrote: 10 Oct 2023, 6:38pm Been dreading this day but always preparing for it. The frame has cracked on the down tube about an inch from the top. I notice almost all new bikes and frames have re-enforcement here now. Anyway need a replacement in a hurry so canvasing for suggestions. Always thought the frame was a bit big for me and have a very short stem (I'm 6'2"). The bike has an e-bike conversion - hub type, I've mounted the battery on the rack. The obvious choice is
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p3 ... r-Frameset
or
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p2 ... r-Frameset
There are also TI options on special offer at SPA though I don't really get the TI thing and I'm worried about fork compatability.
I'm sort of aware of the thorn club tour - anyone got an opinion on the there will be a quality difference ?
Anyone know if there's NOS LHT's around (not second hand)
Anyone suggest alternatives to the above ?
Super fast responses would be really appreciated - I need to order tomorrow morning to catch the retailers delivery cut off.
Cheers,
Bruce.
Mine, rides like a dream, Reynolds 853 steel

https://activesport.co/Sanderson-Life-2 ... tail-frame


There are others UK made by them

https://slam69.co.uk/products/sanderson ... rier-frame



https://www.rushcycles.co.uk/m52b246s59 ... rame-black

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 11:22am
by pwa
brucelee wrote: 11 Oct 2023, 10:39am Another possible gotcha just occurred to me : I'm currently using an up hanger like https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m7b0s101p18 ... ver-Brakes and I've always been a bit worried about the amount of stress these put on the fork crown and the force exerted by the bolt that holds it in place. I got away with it on the LHT despite the fact that it was never designed to have brakes attached here only mudguards. I think the same is true of the wayfarer. So did I just get lucky with the LHT and should I be doing this ? Brakes are Tiagra road levers with tektro oryx.

Cheers,
Bruce.
I use one on my Spa tourer (with cantis) with no concerns whatsoever. The fork crown is a sturdy bit of steel well up to the job.

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 11:46am
by 531colin
Errrrrr……that’s the hole that fixes a side pull/ dual pivot/ centre pull brake…..
If that breaks a lot of folk would be in trouble

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 2:37pm
by richardfm
brucelee wrote: 11 Oct 2023, 9:49am I'm gonna do both - get a wayfarer and someone to weld the LHT :
Have you got a link to colins post ?
Haven't got the skills or gear to do it myself, anyone know someone in the Cardiff area who can do this - I'll strip the frame but the headset is never coming out.
Cheers,
Bruce.
Chris at Lord Cycles is aframe builder in Cardiff, he may be able to help
https://www.lordcycles.co.uk/

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 12 Oct 2023, 5:16am
by NickJP
531colin wrote: 11 Oct 2023, 10:22amIf it fails, outcome is a face-plant and a totally wrecked frame. You might have to forgo the cookies!
Not in my experience. Many years ago I had a steel touring frame break during a tour of Malaysia, at the point where the DT shifter bosses were brazed on. All that happened was that I was riding along and suddenly felt as though the frame had suspension - stopped and found the break in the down tube.

As I was only about three days from the end of the several week tour, I just cut it a bit short, took a train back to Kuala Lumpur, and flew home a few days early.

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 12 Oct 2023, 10:00am
by richardfm
NickJP wrote: 12 Oct 2023, 5:16am
531colin wrote: 11 Oct 2023, 10:22amIf it fails, outcome is a face-plant and a totally wrecked frame. You might have to forgo the cookies!
Not in my experience. Many years ago I had a steel touring frame break during a tour of Malaysia, at the point where the DT shifter bosses were brazed on. All that happened was that I was riding along and suddenly felt as though the frame had suspension - stopped and found the break in the down tube.

As I was only about three days from the end of the several week tour, I just cut it a bit short, took a train back to Kuala Lumpur, and flew home a few days early.
I had a steel top tube fail towards the front of the bike. I thought the handling feels a bit odd. When I stopped at some traffic lights and looked down I found out why. I walked the rest of the way home.
Image

Re: Drop in replacement frame surly LHT 60cm urgent

Posted: 12 Oct 2023, 10:08am
by 531colin
NickJP wrote: 12 Oct 2023, 5:16am
531colin wrote: 11 Oct 2023, 10:22amIf it fails, outcome is a face-plant and a totally wrecked frame. You might have to forgo the cookies!
Not in my experience. Many years ago I had a steel touring frame break during a tour of Malaysia, at the point where the DT shifter bosses were brazed on. All that happened was that I was riding along and suddenly felt as though the frame had suspension - stopped and found the break in the down tube.

As I was only about three days from the end of the several week tour, I just cut it a bit short, took a train back to Kuala Lumpur, and flew home a few days early.
Good for you.
I'm not going to recommend on an internet forum that somebody rides a broken frame.
You can if you like.