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Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 1:25pm
by yorkshirepud
yorkshirepud wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 1:14pm
horizon wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 11:58pm
yorkshirepud wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 6:40pm
but it is interesting and I picked up lots of useful info.
It certainly is and so have I! I initially compared your route to my local "commuting" route here in east Cornwall - it is very similar in terms of length and altitude/climb to yours which is why I was interested in what options you had considered - so thanks for the info on your route. We have the advantage here of a train in and the downhill back so an ebike isn't necessary for most people unless they wanted to cycle both ways. (In Cornwall you can either be stranded in the middle of nowhere or blessed with a multitude of options - there is also a bus!).
However I regularly do a route that is about 50% longer and higher with steeper gradients and as a "there and back" it is very challenging, particularly with time constraints. At the moment it hangs between a tough cycle ride and going by car and it is in this space that an ebike starts to look like an attractive proposition . . .
One thing I can say for certain is that there is no way I would have considered the journey on my road bikes, my health and fitness would make it hell on earth. Even though this eMTB is ridiculously heavy, I was truly amazed at how much the motor assists. Don't get me wrong, it's no speed machine as the motor only helps up to about 15mph, but this is fine for me as it's the slow hilly bits that I need all the help on. The comfort, excellent brakes and overall sturdy feel of the thing compared to my road bikes also make it a clear winner for the commute for me. My initial commute time is actually as quick as my old commute time on my road bike when I was at my very fittest!
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 1:31pm
by Cowsham
yorkshirepud wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 1:07pm
Cowsham wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 8:47pm
yorkshirepud wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 6:40pm
Well, this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent at times, but it is interesting and I picked up lots of useful info. Now I have finally done several commutes (9 miles each way), I can say that I am really happy with my bike, it's a joy to ride. Between the motor and the gears, I feel it gives me everything I need in assistance when I need it, which is all the time right now!. It's great though because when I get fitter, I can turn down the assist as needed.
I am so glad I fitted the Schwalbe Marathon E-Plus tyres as these feel so much better than the knobbly MTB tyres on the tarmac and are virtually silent.
I can safely do 2 full days commuting with 25% battery left. Not too bad really considering I use the high assist modes lots at the moment. There are 4 modes and my percent usage currently is as follows:
Turbo: 15%
eMTB: 43%
Tour+: 22%
Eco: 20%
Yes great to be out on the bike again -- health to enjoy.
Would the Turbo mode not be more than eMTB mode?
Yes, the turbo mode is the highest power, but I used it only on the very steepest climbs and when I got a strong headwind or felt too tired. I could have used it instead of eMTB and I think my battery would still have lasted for 2 full commutes. My idea was to use what I felt I needed with a slight mind on battery as it was an unknown.
Ah sorry I thought that was % help from battery or similar -- didn't read the paragraph correctly above --- so does the computer log your usage of each ?
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 4:56pm
by Pinhead
cycle tramp wrote: ↑12 Nov 2023, 5:32pm
...umm its probably not beyond the wit of most electrical engineers to convert a bike which has a specialist shaped battery to use a generic battery.. I'm not saying the result will look neat, but it's better than recycling a bike if/when the specialist shaped battery can't be replaced...
...although by that time, economically speaking the rest of the bike may be equally knackered, in which case the solution is to purchase another bike.. who knows our obsession with lithium batteries may be over by then, and we might find something else has taken its place, hydrogen power cells, new wave solar cell bike mudguards which feed into a capacitor (rather than a battery) mirco motors which need less stored energy to produce the same power..?
Who knows, certainly when I was younger I couldn't have predicted the amount of technology which would go into a mobile phone... its utterly beyond me and yet that technology feels like a common place thing. It could be that small personal electrical vehicles may be at the front of the next technological wave.
apologies for the thread drift.
Just get the right bike and battery first time, too many jump in, take salesmen's advice then regret it
Took me 2 months before buying, I have TWO bikes, same battery so I always have a spare for long runs
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 4:59pm
by Pinhead
yorkshirepud wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023, 6:40pm
Well, this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent at times, but it is interesting and I picked up lots of useful info. Now I have finally done several commutes (9 miles each way), I can say that I am really happy with my bike, it's a joy to ride. Between the motor and the gears, I feel it gives me everything I need in assistance when I need it, which is all the time right now!. It's great though because when I get fitter, I can turn down the assist as needed.
I am so glad I fitted the Schwalbe Marathon E-Plus tyres as these feel so much better than the knobbly MTB tyres on the tarmac and are virtually silent.
I can safely do 2 full days commuting with 25% battery left. Not too bad really considering I use the high assist modes lots at the moment. There are 4 modes and my percent usage currently is as follows:
Turbo: 15%
eMTB: 43%
Tour+: 22%
Eco: 20%
That is all fine until you want to go out for the day
I did a 40 mile round trip last week, cold, wet, rather than take the car, with a 750Wh battery I made it back to within 1 mile of the home
That is ONLY 20 miles out NOT far.
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 5:33pm
by rareposter
Pinhead wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 4:59pm
That is all fine until you want to go out for the day
I did a 40 mile round trip last week, cold, wet, rather than take the car, with a 750Wh battery I made it back to within 1 mile of the home
That is ONLY 20 miles out NOT far.
Yes but the OP has a Cube hybrid with fully integrated motor and battery management, not the bolt-on kit that you have.
And, as he's stated, he's done multiple commutes of 9 miles each way (18 miles total) and can do 2 days (36 miles) and still have 25% battery left.
And that's using a significant chunk of the two highest power modes, turbo and e-MTB. In those riding conditions, that'd give an estimated range of 48 miles. Could probably extend to 60 miles using more of the two lower power modes (Tour and Eco) and, if Cube do a range extender for that model, (I don't know if they do nor not, it's not a model I'm familiar with) then that'd add another 50% easily.
The significant advantage of modern e-bikes is all the integrated electronics that give power usage and range on a handlebar display. Some allow you to customise the power outputs as well so if you do end up on a long day out and running out of battery, you can drop the power down a bit to extend the range.
Great to hear that the commuting is going well OP, keep at it!
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 5:34pm
by Cowsham
cycle tramp wrote: ↑12 Nov 2023, 5:32pm
who knows our obsession with lithium batteries may be over by then
I wouldn't hold my breath.
Lithium batteries have had a real bad press lately but the real facts are we've had them in mobile phones since at least the mid *90's but how many times have you heard of a battery exploding ? The length of time I've had my last phone is 7 years. A Samsung s7 which was the wife's phone ( she always had the better phone so I got the hand me down from her when she upgraded ) it's been dropped countless times but still works perfect. I use it as a second emergency phone if anything needs doing on my "new" phone. Battery capacity is still very good. I think most people let lithium ion batteries drain too low too many times whereas I keep mine charged and don't let it run out same goes for bike.
* ( I remember having a small Mitsubishi Trium phone which was one of the first smallish phones there was another earlier one but can't remember the name of it )
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 5:52pm
by Cowsham
Pinhead wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 4:59pm
That is all fine until you want to go out for the day
I did a 40 mile round trip last week, cold, wet, rather than take the car, with a 750Wh battery I made it back to within 1 mile of the home
That is ONLY 20 miles out NOT far.
My kitted bike will do over 60 miles with charge left over -- I know cos I've done it and it's only a 13 ah 36v battery ( 468w ) . All on power level 1 -- that mileage halves on the highest setting though. It's only a carrera subway so not as high quality bike as yours to begin with.
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 5:55pm
by Jdsk
Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 5:52pm
...
My kitted bike will do over 60 miles with charge left over -- I know cos I've done it and it's only a 13 ah 36v battery ( 468w ) .
...
468
W h?
Jonathan
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 6:06pm
by Cowsham
Jdsk wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 5:55pm
Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 5:52pm
...
My kitted bike will do over 60 miles with charge left over -- I know cos I've done it and it's only a 13 ah 36v battery ( 468w ) .
...
468
W h?
Jonathan
Sorry yes 468w for an hour 13 ah means 13 amps for an hour the voltage being 36v
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 9:17pm
by cycle tramp
Cowsham wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 5:34pm
cycle tramp wrote: ↑12 Nov 2023, 5:32pm
who knows our obsession with lithium batteries may be over by then
I wouldn't hold my breath.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that lithium batteries are bad, but merely to suggest that given the amount of investment in other technologies something else may provide a better alternative.
I don't think we've fully grasped the impact of the technologies of the electric bicycle. For example if I used an electric motor in the front hub - have I now got a 2 wheel drive bicycle? Less likely to be stuck in the mud or affected by slippery conditions? If I've got an electric motor in either (or both) wheel (s) can I turn them into regenerative brakes - stopping me, like normal brakes but rather than turn my forward motion into heat, it gets turned back to electricity and stored in a battery? (Like hybrid cars or trains).
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 23 Nov 2023, 9:28pm
by Jdsk
cycle tramp wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 9:17pm
...
If I've got an electric motor in either (or both) can I turn them into regenerative brakes - stopping me, like normal brakes but rather than turn my forward motion into heat, it gets turned back to electricity and stored in a battery?
Many eBikes have had regenerative braking but obviously it hasn't caught on.
The physics of bikes is very different from that of cars, and this explains why the benefits are much lower.
I'm not expecting much change on this in the near future.
Jonathan
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 6:51am
by cycle tramp
Jdsk wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 9:28pm
cycle tramp wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 9:17pm
...
If I've got an electric motor in either (or both) can I turn them into regenerative brakes - stopping me, like normal brakes but rather than turn my forward motion into heat, it gets turned back to electricity and stored in a battery?
Many eBikes have had regenerative braking but obviously it hasn't caught on.
The physics of bikes is very different from that of cars, and this explains why the benefits are much lower.
Physics are Physics and their laws are the same regardless of size of the object on which they act. However I take your underlying point that the potential energy of a bike at the top of the hill will be lower than a car at the top of the hill...
..but equally the bike will consume less energy to move forward once at the bottom..
..if a bicycle is slowed somewhat by generating light energy then how much energy could be generated by a dynamo which when turned on brings the bike to a halt?
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 8:26am
by Vorpal
Regenerative braking has been discussed a few times before.
This thread has some discussion and also links to an earlier one.
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 9:25am
by roubaixtuesday
re the physics, AIUI it's because your regen needs to charge the battery much faster than it can be charged to be effective.
On a bike, most regen energy would come from descending.
Descending 100kg mass on a 10% hill at 10 m/s (=36kmh) requires ~a kW to be absorbed. You can't charge a small bike battery that fast, so regen isn't very effective. Plus your whole electric gubbins needs to be powered for absorbing this large amount of power, more than the motor puts out.
And, as others have pointed out, aero drag is relatively more important than inertial change for a bike compared to a car.
Re: I will be commuting again after a 15 year gap! Nervous.
Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 9:34am
by Pinhead
rareposter wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 5:33pm
Pinhead wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023, 4:59pm
That is all fine until you want to go out for the day
I did a 40 mile round trip last week, cold, wet, rather than take the car, with a 750Wh battery I made it back to within 1 mile of the home
That is ONLY 20 miles out NOT far.
Yes but the OP has a Cube hybrid with fully integrated motor and battery management, not the bolt-on kit that you have.
And, as he's stated, he's done multiple commutes of 9 miles each way (18 miles total) and can do 2 days (36 miles) and still have 25% battery left.
Good luck finding a replacement battery in a few years for built in ones
Yes I have a fully visual display what do you think they have just a + - button, also fully customisable menus from the software ) and controller)
I was using 5+ on the journey, should have stuck to 1 or 2, it has 9 (NINE) noticeable adjustable (via laptop customisable) settings
You say "bolt on" as if it is a dirty thing, remember bafang have been building electric motors for over 20 years.
About Bafang Company COMPANY
Bafang, one of the leading manufacturers of e-mobility components and complete e-drive systems, has been developing solutions for electric vehicles since 2003. The company focuses on all global e-mobility trends of the future: whether for individual e-bikes, e-scooters or for public bike-sharing schemes.