switching to tadpole 26" or 20"?

[pjclinch]

Personally I wouldn't have suspension, I like to 'feel' what the bike is doing.

On the one hand, yes, feedback is good, but on the other if "what the bike is doing" is hitting something quite chunky then feeling it might not be quite so much to one's liking...

Regards gearing, recumbens work better with hub gears, for the simple reason should you stop unexpectedly in a high gear, you can easily, click down into a lower gear

I'm a big fan of hub gears and all my derailleur bikes would have Rohloffs if I were rich enough, but I don't see this as a recumbent specific thing tbh. if I stop unexpectedly on an upwrong with a hub the same argument above applies just as readily. Yes, I can always mash it by standing on the pedals... but on the 'bent I can always mash it by bracing against the seat.

Pete.

[Grldtnr]

By the same token , on a upwrong,you can easily, dismount one pedal, lift the rear wheel, and shift to a lower gear with no load.
But if reclined. It means a total dismount ,to lower a gear,if you got danglies, but a IGH, you just click it down
A Hemi - pleagic might not find that so convenient, depending on the disability.
In this case, not having to dismount is a definitive reason to choose IGH.
As for twanging suzzies, I do try to avoid , holes, or undulations, I also own an Optima Rider trike, built like a tank out of stainless steel, it has suspended rear shock, which I find of little benefit, it wallows a lot, and over rough roads been known to 'pogo' down the road.
Nope no Suzzie for me!

[pjclinch]

As for twanging suzzies, I do try to avoid , holes, or undulations

This is rather dependent on where you want to ride, of course. Pure tarmac is one thing, but personally I'm not averse to a bit of off-road, even fully laden on the 'bent for touring, and avoiding holes and undulations off-road doesn't really work...

Pete.

[Psamathe]

Re: Hub gears: I have currently danglies but am keen on switching the rear to hub - Rohloff. Problem I seem to have (other than cost) is getting low enough gearing and staying within Rohloff warranty. Lowest on my current configuration is 16" and I like it and would want to keep it ie not wanting lowest to get higher. But talking to ICE and they say you wont get that low and keep within the Rohloff warranty. Easy to do outside Rohloff specs.

I'd still thought about it but this summer tour met a Dutch cyclist (touring in France) who was very keen on building his own bikes and he was saying how he'd broken a Rohloff under load (no e-power involved) so whilst they sound very tough, they can be broken.

Ian

[Carlton green]

Hub gears must surely be the better way forward in this instance. When used with a smaller wheel over-torquing them is a lessened possibility. Rohloff are doubtless the best available but they are pricey; one of the (relatively affordable) Shimano hubs might be enough and SA do / did a hub that had a derailleur working with it. Gear range might be an issue, gear it low and be happy with where top ends up being.

[[XAP]Bob]

Re: Hub gears: I have currently danglies but am keen on switching the rear to hub - Rohloff. Problem I seem to have (other than cost) is getting low enough gearing and staying within Rohloff warranty. Lowest on my current configuration is 16" and I like it and would want to keep it ie not wanting lowest to get higher. But talking to ICE and they say you wont get that low and keep within the Rohloff warranty. Easy to do outside Rohloff specs.

I'd still thought about it but this summer tour met a Dutch cyclist (touring in France) who was very keen on building his own bikes and he was saying how he'd broken a Rohloff under load (no e-power involved) so whilst they sound very tough, they can be broken.

Ian

take an example 38t chainring to a 16 tooth sprocket: 38/16*.279*20" = 13.3" from a 20" wheel.
And that's not at the ratio limit.

[[XAP]Bob]

Hub gears must surely be the better way forward in this instance. When used with a smaller wheel over-torquing them is a lessened possibility. Rohloff are doubtless the best available but they are pricey; one of the (relatively affordable) Shimano hubs might be enough and SA do / did a hub that had a derailleur working with it. Gear range might be an issue, gear it low and be happy with where top ends up being.

The SA hub is fantastic, and I happen to have one hanging up in the garage... I just don't have any wheels which aren't cantilevered any more. I could use it as a mid drive in the velo, but that's got a Rohloff in it...

[Psamathe]

Re: Hub gears: I have currently danglies but am keen on switching the rear to hub - Rohloff. Problem I seem to have (other than cost) is getting low enough gearing and staying within Rohloff warranty. Lowest on my current configuration is 16" and I like it and would want to keep it ie not wanting lowest to get higher. But talking to ICE and they say you wont get that low and keep within the Rohloff warranty. Easy to do outside Rohloff specs.

I'd still thought about it but this summer tour met a Dutch cyclist (touring in France) who was very keen on building his own bikes and he was saying how he'd broken a Rohloff under load (no e-power involved) so whilst they sound very tough, they can be broken.

Ian

take an example 38t chainring to a 16 tooth sprocket: 38/16*.279*20" = 13.3" from a 20" wheel.
And that's not at the ratio limit.

Might give ICE another call. 1st time I asked they gave me some options. 2nd time to clarify they said "stop you there, if you're on danglies then you wont get as low and stay in Rohloff limits" (words to that effect). I'm on a 26" rear. So turning out the notes I made from 1st conversation and ask again. 1st time they gave me a ballpark price that was a lot but worth considering.

Partly because rear cassette, chain is in need of replacement and rear derailleur is being "difficult" (been recommended to upgrade to RD-M786 XT so if making chasnges ...

Main reason I'm keen is both tours on tadpole (1 month 1st one, 2 months 2nd) the rear derailleur has given a bit of grief but never bad enough to stop cycling, just annoying. I can't see the logic but they seem more "sensitive" when loaded (camping gear, clothing, etc.).

Ian

[Tigerbiten]

I looked into all the options for gearing with a Rohloff hub.
The easiest way to get the range from a Rohloff on the bent trike is just fit a 30/39/50 road triple up front.
This gives you an extra 4 gears.
With a 20" wheel fit a 13t sprocket, for 26" it's a just legal 16t or an iffy 17t sprocket.
Range around 12"-105.4" for 20" wheel, slightly higher on the 26" wheel.

Then if you want a silly wide range, look into a Schlumpf bottom bracket hub gear.
It's how I got an 18x range on my bent trike.

[pjclinch]

There's now an alternative to the Rohloff, the Kindernay hub (also 14 speed and v. expensive). Don't know how that will work as regards the limits discussed above, but Ben "Kinetics" Cooper has used a few and could probably give you a suitably technical description.

Pete.

[Skids]

For what they are worth (not much) here are my opinions based on owning a 2005 ICE Q NT with 20 inch all round and standard derailleur gears - nine cogs on rear and three chain rings at the front.

I ride in rural North Lincolnshire where the council have given up on proper road maintenance. I am not a great cyclist and generally average 9.8-10.4 m.p.h which is fine by me!

Suspension ? My trike started out, in 2005, with no suspension and it was a rough ride. I changed the tyres to Big Apples and ran them at lower pressure which increased comfort but probably reduced speed. In June 2022 I fitted a suspended rear end to my trike. I stayed with 20 inch wheel partly because a 26 would not fold as well given the Narrow Track. The new rear suspension is a great improvement and takes the sting out of the potholes that prove impossible to avoid. Two weeks ago I fitted front suspension and again have experienced an improvement in rider comfort. It is not as drastic as when the rear was fitted but it is real. I need new tyres so will probably be looking at some marathons.

The down side of fitting front suspension is that the trike now has a very slight amount of brake steer and on some road surfaces suffers from a shimmy when riding hands off. Neither of which is really a problem.

So suspension get my vote. Side note I'm pretty sure that its possible to have disc brakes with front suspension but please read on.

Brakes My trike has standard drum brakes and I have found them to be the best brakes I have ever used. The only maintenance I have had to do in eighteen years is to once oil the lower end of one of the cables which started get stuck. That's it. I have disc brakes on two other bicycles and one stops o.k. but they both suffer from squeaks, tings and replacement pads are extortionate. So drum brakes get my very firm vote.

Rear Derailleur. The issue with the rear derailleur on a twenty inch wheel is, as mentioned above, it eats grass. I think that the only way of actually braking it off while riding on rough ground is if the wheel falls into a rocky rut. I've ridden mine down some pretty rough tracks without any problems other than it becoming jammed with grass. A larger wheel is probably not much help as my 29er also gets jammed with grass, it all depends on the grass.

Hub Gears I like the idea of hub gears but I will not fit them unless I can retain my present low gear of 17 inches.

I hope that some of the above is helpful.

best wishes
Simon

[[XAP]Bob]

Hub Gears I like the idea of hub gears but I will not fit them unless I can retain my present low gear of 17 inches.

With a 20" wheel at the back you can. If I adapt my mango gearing spreadsheet to have a 1:1 final drive ratio then I get gearing from 11.8" to 62.1" on the 38t chainring, engaging overdrive gets me up to 155" - a more reasonable 38/60 would get to 98"

To keep 17" at the bottom you'd top out (on the single chainring) at 90".
That's actually my velomobile's bottom range (38t Chainring -> 18t sprocket > Rohloff -> 26t sprocket on the disc mounts -> 18t freewheel -> 20" rear wheel) and I chose it because it puts the upper end of the normal gear range at 24mph at 90rpm. That's a nice cruising cadence and speed for the flat, enough gears to winch my way up the bumps around here and plenty of overspeed on the other side using the HSD (I don't need top gear until I'm exceeding 53mph).

[Skids]

53 mph !

I think I would be seeking the handle for brake parachute rather than changing into a high gear - kudos!

I've often toyed with getting a velomobile but am uncertain if I have the power to take advantage of the aerodynamics. Mind you having been out in last nights storm on my Q the additional weather protection is attractive. Max speed was 7 mph into the headwind while riding looking through rain lashed spectacles covered in water drops nicely illuminated by back scatter from my front light.

[[XAP]Bob]

53 mph !

I think I would be seeking the handle for brake parachute rather than changing into a high gear - kudos!

And I wouldn't blame you at all.
I regularly hit around 45mph - not very often 50, though I have managed that on an unfaired trike before. Snowdonia is a lovely place to cycle
If, and it's a big if, I was putting 90rpm into my top gear... then I'd be doing 60mph.
That's astoundingly unlikely to ever happen - the reason I gear so high is that I want the cutover on the HSD to be just above flat cruising speed.
It's a slight compromise in terms of my lowest gear, but that seems to pull me up most things. I can* switch out the final drive sprocket to reduce the overall gearing if I was going to do something more akin to touring than the current "blast around the local area"

I've often toyed with getting a velomobile but am uncertain if I have the power to take advantage of the aerodynamics. Mind you having been out in last nights storm on my Q the additional weather protection is attractive. Max speed was 7 mph into the headwind while riding looking through rain lashed spectacles covered in water drops nicely illuminated by back scatter from my front light.

My biggest velomobile regret is not buying one 15 years earlier - commuting would have been an absolute doddle...




* At least I think I can, probably not by much though, the four bolt mounts on the rohloff aren't conducive to small sprockets.
If I could find a larger left hand threaded freewheel then that would be a good option - but even the 18t ones are a bit like the teeth from a female chicken.
I could go down to 16 or up to 20.. https://acsbmx.myshopify.com/collection ... -drive-f-w

[Tigerbiten]

Another Rohloff-Schlumpf HSD combo on a 20" back wheel here.
The aim when deciding on the gears for my new trike 15 years ago was to have a range 10"-130".
The Rohloff-HSD combo let me do this, 30t chainring and 16t sprocket.
It was fine on tour but the shift into overdrive was only around 14 mph, to low for around town.
So I fitted a 13t sprocket, the shift into overdrive was now around 20mph but I'd lost the 2 lowest gears.
Then I had a brain wave... Twin chainrings and a single sprocket would fix the issue.
The spider on the HSD is 130mm, so smallest chainring is 38t.
Luckily the largest sprocket on the Rohloff is 21t, so I could keep my 1.8:1 chainring/sprocket ratio for the 10" bottom gear.
I know that ratio is not recommended but it's worked for 15 years/50k miles, but go that low at your own risk.
Now 3 gears up is 1.446x, so 38 x 1.446 = 55.7.
The 56t chainring doesn't work with the chainguard, chain jams against it when shifting, so fitted the 55t.
I spinout at 50 mph, done it a couple of times now, but tend to stop pedalling at around 45 mph.
It's "fun" pedalling slowly downhill at 40 mph ....