Keeping warm?

[pjclinch]

Wear warmer layers that simply cannot hold onto sweat: (synthetic base layer, some kind of light fleece, windstopper arm warmers, and an uninsulated softshell which does a much better job of allowing sweat out than a nylon windshirt - usually with some kind of insulated layer I can chuck over the top as needed)

There isn't much that "simply cannot hold on to sweat". If sweat won't soak in it'll just sit about (Paramo is an exception where water moves through spaces in the weave by capillary action), and if it soaks in then it can be held.

"Softshell" is a marketing term that can cover an awful lot of bases, and one that e.g. uses a microporous membrane like Windstopper will almost certainly be less breathable than a typical nylon windshirt. Arguably a windshirt is a variant of uninsulated soft shell.

Also, nylon/polyamide isn't a particular fabric (nor is polyester) so one can't assume one nylon windshirt will be much as breathable as another. It'll depend on the construction of the fabric and design of the garment.

The general case for breathability is that it's inversely proportional to windproofing: you choose, you lose.

For getting sweat out it's worth noting this happens in two ways, first by vaporised sweat moving through the fabric ("breathing") and second by soaking in as a liquid and (hopefully!) evaporating. The latter won't generally happen with membranes and it happens less with DWR coatings popular on both soft shells and windshirts.

There are lots of variables and I'll deploy one of numerous solutions according to the ones in play for that ride. None of them are ever perfect.

Pete.

[Airsporter1st]

These are always advertised in the golfing mags and certainly look like they would do the job; you certainly can’t layer up too much for golf, because it impedes the swing (not that that would make a lot of difference to my game!).

https://zerofit.co.uk/products/heatrub- ... -baselayer

[pjclinch]

These are always advertised in the golfing mags and certainly look like they would do the job; you certainly can’t layer up too much for golf, because it impedes the swing (not that that would make a lot of difference to my game!).

https://zerofit.co.uk/products/heatrub- ... -baselayer

I suspect this is Marketing At Work, promising an awful lot with some rather odd takes on what stuff actually means and does. Now, a degree of marketing tosh doesn't mean it's a bad product or won't keep you warm, but the suggestion is that the garment will be twice as warm as a sweater because the fabric has a higher heat retention rating... What you're actually after, I suspect, is insulation which doesn't so much retain heat as stop it moving away from your body. Water is very good at retaining heat, it's not much of an insulator. Vacuum doesn't retain heat but it's a fantastic insulator. So their measurements may well be correct, but are they actually relevant? I'm not convinced.

The suggestion in the blurb is that heat will come from the Miracle Fibres, but without an energy source this isn't really going to happen (you can get phase change materials that store energy when they change state and release when they change back, but that only works once before needing a "recharge").

The usual game is to stop body generated heat being lost. Insulation stops you getting colder so fast, but the heat is typically generated by your body, not your garment (electrically heated clothes are an obvious exception).

Pete.

[Nearholmer]

These are always advertised in the golfing mags and certainly look like they would do the job

I may be doing an injustice to golfers, but from what I’ve observed they don’t seem to work very hard, a lot of walking fairly slowly while chatting, a lot of standing about while the other bod has a go, more standing about ‘sizing things up’, then a very brief burst of activity to hit the ball. They probably need to hang on to body heat.

That’s quite different from riding a bike, even riding a bike gently, so it seems likely that a different base layer will be appropriate. To some degree, cycling usually involves deliberately shedding body heat, in a controlled way, even when the weather is cold.

To me, that’s the thing: match the clothing to the activity level and how the individual responds to that activity level.

[Airsporter1st]

These are always advertised in the golfing mags and certainly look like they would do the job

I may be doing an injustice to golfers, but from what I’ve observed they don’t seem to work very hard, a lot of walking fairly slowly while chatting, a lot of standing about while the other bod has a go, more standing about ‘sizing things up’, then a very brief burst of activity to hit the ball. They probably need to hang on to body heat.

That’s quite different from riding a bike, even riding a bike gently, so it seems likely that a different base layer will be appropriate. To some degree, cycling usually involves deliberately shedding body heat, in a controlled way, even when the weather is cold.

To me, that’s the thing: match the clothing to the activity level and how the individual responds to that activity level.

A bit further down, they talk about the ‘Move’ which they recommend specifically for cycling. Nevertheless, I’m not ruling out that they may simply be a triumph of advertising as suggested above.

[Bmblbzzz]

"Twice as warm as a sweater." Well, I've got a number of sweaters in my wardrobe and I'm sure I could find one that's at least twice as warm as another one. And they'd both be knitted wool.

[cyclop]

What're the warmest inner layers I can buy?

Some people recommend these glorified string vests; has anyone here tried them and can comment on them?

https://www.nordiclife.co.uk/products/b ... 1103325259

I,ve got a long and short sleeved set.They do a job but no better than my 20yr old Lowe Alpine baselayer.Being a fairly heavy sweater,they,re all a compromise in winter .....damp and warmish aboutsums it up .

[rotavator]

What're the warmest inner layers I can buy?

Some people recommend these glorified string vests; has anyone here tried them and can comment on them?

https://www.nordiclife.co.uk/products/b ... 1103325259

I,ve got a long and short sleeved set.They do a job but no better than my 20yr old Lowe Alpine baselayer.Being a fairly heavy sweater,they,re all a compromise in winter .....damp and warmish aboutsums it up .

Thanks for the information. I will stick with my Icebreaker merino base layers, some of which are about 30 years old and only a bit tatty around the neckline.

[ed.lazda]

I like the Nordiclife string vests, they seem to shift the sweat a bit better than most baselayers. I even wear one under a jersey for long, steady indoor riding where chilling from sweat is also an issue.

For outer layers, I find that a lightweight "race cape" type waterproof jacket is a lot more breathable than a "proper" waterproof. This makes me think that a very lightweight wind jacket with no membrane might be the solution I'm looking for. The quest continues!

[carlislemike]

Okay, being a sad git t times, I have had recourse to rescuing the ride of a much younger friend who was suffering from freezing weather. His body was fine courtesy of layers but his fingers and toes were really suffering. Cue popping into the nearespetrol station forecourt and snaffling the plastic gloves from the dispenser. Fitted inside his gloves and a couple of judicious holes on the top of the plastic glove, windproof and reasonably breathable for the next 12 miles. As for feet, tinfoil from his packed lunch was still clean and covered his toes over his socks. Not exactly high tech but saved his day. Wouldn't recommend these ideas for long term planning

[rareposter]

Cue popping into the nearespetrol station forecourt and snaffling the plastic gloves from the dispenser. Fitted inside his gloves and a couple of judicious holes on the top of the plastic glove, windproof and reasonably breathable for the next 12 miles.

That one is well known in Audax circles!

A friend once bought some Marigold washing up gloves in a supermarket and popped them on over her normal (non waterproof) gloves. That, combined with her normal cycling waterproof jacket and overtrousers, kept her riding warm and dry(ish) through a couple of hours of biblical weather!

[djnotts]

Much wider discussion following my self-focussed OP.
Most helpful for me was @slowster:

"I suggested a lightweight synthetic insulated jacket, but the link I gave was to a retailer selling high end expensive brands. I think Decathlon's own brand jacket is well regarded, and might be a good choice if it was a suitable fit. It currently costs £34.99 - https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-syn ... 29&c=black"

Duly bought - it's already proved an excellent purchase. Very limited stocks now left I think, but highly recommended!

For non-cycling, my partner bought me a very similar one from Trespass, in a larger size to fit over thick sweaters etc.
Also excellent. Put away my usual leather jackets for now...

Thanks, slowster.

[KM2]

The best overshoes I have are a set a wet suit bootees, arctic,. No zips , or cleat holes . Recommended by someone in the Beeston RC in the 1970”s. Only good if the bottom of the shoe is smooth (road) as the foot had to slide in. Far warmer than anything you can get now.
Just cut the neoprene for the cleat.

[Bmblbzzz]

The best overshoes I have are a set a wet suit bootees, arctic,. No zips , or cleat holes . Recommended by someone in the Beeston RC in the 1970”s. Only good if the bottom of the shoe is smooth (road) as the foot had to slide in. Far warmer than anything you can get now.
Just cut the neoprene for the cleat.

Something like so?
https://www.wiggle.com/p/dhb-hydron-the ... ooties-2-0

Interesting idea but I wonder how long the soles last with a couple of cafe stops? Or even just a few foot-downs at red lights? Especially once you've cut a hole in the sole.

[KM2]

The soles were and still are fine. Don’t use them now.
No good for spds.