Tyre choice for intermittent black ice?

[LittleGreyCat]

Group ride on Suffolk coast abandoned this morning when two participants almost came off on black ice in the first few yards.
[I wasn't on this one, thankfully.]
This raised a question.

At the moment there is frost overnight and this leaves black ice on minor roads.
We ride (not unsurprisingly) on very minor roads most of the time.
What I am seeing at the moment is frost still on rooves and cars in the shade, but clear in the sunshine.
This paints a picture of minor roads with black ice in the shade, but not in the sun.

If everywhere was ice/snow then I assume studded tyres would be the weapon of choice.

With ice and dry 50/50 what is the best way to go on tyres?
If you decide to go, of course.

[horizon]

AIUI the options are (after having checked the overnight temperatures the night before):

1. Don't ride (which is difficult given that this situation can occur on lots of days in the winter)
2. Ride but with care and foresight (and therefore more slowly) and possibly lower pressures.
3. Non-studded winter tyres with better adhesion (still with care though?)
4. Lightly studded tyres (e.g. Schwalbe Snow Stud)
5. Fully studded tyres (e.g. Marathon Winter)
6. Buy a recumbent

My own preferred options are Nos.4 and 5 - have a bike ready with studded tyres and to hell with the noise/slowness/weight - it is winter after all. There is only a small cost penalty as it is often possible to buy studded tyres second-hand, moslty lightly if at all used.

[Pinhead]

Group ride on Suffolk coast abandoned this morning when two participants almost came off on black ice in the first few yards.
[I wasn't on this one, thankfully.]
This raised a question.

At the moment there is frost overnight and this leaves black ice on minor roads.
We ride (not unsurprisingly) on very minor roads most of the time.
What I am seeing at the moment is frost still on rooves and cars in the shade, but clear in the sunshine.
This paints a picture of minor roads with black ice in the shade, but not in the sun.

If everywhere was ice/snow then I assume studded tyres would be the weapon of choice.

With ice and dry 50/50 what is the best way to go on tyres?
If you decide to go, of course.

No more than there are car tyres for black ice !

[rogerzilla]

Only studded tyres work on sheet ice (and they work well).

[Galactic]

Slithering around in the snow this morning (on Marathon Pluses) I was pondering a similar question. The slithering was less to do with the snow than the ice hidden below it (ie snow from yesterday compacted by cars illegally driving down our cycle and pedestrian green route).
While I was slithering and dithering at 10mph (or 16kmh if you want to refer to that other thread viewtopic.php?t=158866) another cyclist came the other way. At a perfectly normal pace and clearly not worrying about any slithering. She'd passed me so fast I didn't get a good look at her tyres, but the tracks she left behind were lots of round, closely spaced holes - perhaps the Schwalbe G-one Allrounds? (I was impressed enough to have a look at pictures of tyres once I got home).

Now I'm wondering whether I should get some of these G-one Allrounds because although I've got some studs, I really don't like using them.

[Grldtnr]

I don't think you can mitigate special tyres for black ice, whatever rubber you are riding , you are still unli to stay upright, by the very nature of black ice ( essentially a thin layer of water atop Ice.
The only thing you can possibly do is ride with studded tyres or the G- one all round tyres.
It may be the woman in question had a high skill set and able to ride on ice, or more likely wasn't aware of it so sub consiouly was unconcerned, which the conditions, so was blithely able to ride across it.
If you know it's slippery you will worry about coming off.
I myself have 2 recumbent trikes amongst my varied stable of bikes , do if I really must ride on Ice ,I m alright Jack!
This isn't the case tho', I have caused great consternation, whilst trying to climb a hill, I got so far, then lost all traction.
The trike, slipped broadside to the hill and started to slide sideways back down the hill, the following clubmates were not best pleasef to see me coming back down in a attempt to skittle them all !

[Cugel]

Schwalbe G-One Allrounds of 40mm width are on the winter ebike. They're good on wet and/or dirty roads, with a degree of better grip thereupon - but they don't help at all on black ice. They probably deal well with pristine (unpacked) snow but then most bike tyres do.

I have a spare wheelset shod with the Marathon studded winter tyres. These studs are numerous and spaced around that part of the circumference of the tyre likely to contact the road, even with a significant amount of lean. They have a TCT core that's very hard and doesn't wear down quickly. They also get a grip on the black ice, although you'd still want to avoid mad lean angles.

The G-One Allrounds are quite a "fast" tyre and relatively light in their tubeless guise, rolling well and without a lot of noise. At 40mm wide I have them at 35 - 40 psi max for my 82 kg + 18 kg of fully equipped ebike (mudguards, pannier rack & panniers, tool bottle etc.). The Marathon studded things are heavy (near 1 kg each) slow and noisy. I think they're about 36mm wide so need a bit more pressure. They're also not suitable for tubeless configuration. But they're the only tyre safe to ride on black ice or any other thin but very slippy coating upon tarmac.

The significant risk with the studded items is that you forget how slippy black ice is so if you stop and put a foot down on it, you can slide down to the ground in a not-graceful manner.

[Jon in Sweden]

Definitely studs.

I run Marathon Winter Plus on my road commuter and Suomi Hile Reflex on my gravel (sometimes commuter). I wouldn't entertain the idea of going anywhere near snow or ice without appropriate tyres.

A picture of the Suomi tyre with snow in the tread from this week. The studs sit proud and are the only way to grip black ice:

[robc02]

It probably depends on how intermittent the ice is.

For several years I had Schwalbe Marathon Winter studded tyres on a bike from about November until March. I only used it for my commute when it was cold enough to suspect icy patches. They worked well on those icy patches, but overall I felt they were overkill for my purposes.

I now have the same bike fitted with Continental Top Contact Winter in 42mm width and find them a better compromise. I wouldn't deliberately ride them on sheet ice but have found them OK on the patches that I usually encounter.

[Nearholmer]

I use Bontrager G2, which have similar performance characteristics to the Allrounds, although the knobble-pattern is different, and they have, so far, coped with the biggest risk locally, which is frost/ice on wooden bridges and “decking”, which can be seriously slippery. But, I’d still go very cautiously, probably not cycle, if I suspected there might be black ice about, which there can be in deep-set lanes.

Last winter, I got caught be invisible ice when walking about a hundred metres from the front door, on those concrete “brick paviours”. I didn’t go down, but did do all the stuff that happens in cartoons, legs going in all directions.

[jimlews]

Winter tyres have to be a good thing.
But, just wondering...

Do those advocating winter tyres keep a spare set of wheels fitted with them ?
or
Change both tyres after viewing the forecast ?

[Cugel]

Winter tyres have to be a good thing.
But, just wondering...

Do those advocating winter tyres keep a spare set of wheels fitted with them ?
or
Change both tyres after viewing the forecast ?

Spare wheelset with the studded tyres on. If the forecast says no ice for the next week, I swap off the studded tyre wheelset for that with the G-One Allrounds. Vice-versa if a period of winter high pressure with overnight freezing is forecast, as it is for the next week here in West Wales and, I believe, elsewhere in Blighty.

This a necessity (spare wheelset) if your non-studded winter tyres/rims are tubeless, as the studded Marathons ain't - although I suppose you could pour/scrape out the sealant and use a tube with the studded tyres instead. Too much effort altogether, that!

[rjb]

Lot's of advice here.
viewtopic.php?t=134989

[mjr]

Do those advocating winter tyres keep a spare set of wheels fitted with them ?
or
Change both tyres after viewing the forecast ?

Tyres get changed on the backup bike after ice is forecast. In theory. In practice, illness, travel and the timing of first ice means I'm doing it tonight and stopping taking chances!

[mattsccm]

Low pressure, soft rubber slick or near slick gravel tyres plus care and experience. All help plus a bit of discretion.