Automatic gears for bicycle

[jimster99]

I saw this clip of an automatic gear system for bikes and thought it looked hilarious, awesome, and probably highly impractical. Well done to the inventor but does the idea have legs?

Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O47oJGA-NHI

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/11/au ... big-shift/

[Chris Jeggo]

It's not the first - https://www.jeggo.org.uk/Deal_Drive_Cyc ... l-1983.pdf
- and it won't be the last.

Coming soon .... Di2 + AI .... maybe.

[Pinhead]

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technolo ... shift.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=e1MdXuE8oDs

[Chris Jeggo]

Coming sooner than I thought.

[Bonzo Banana]

I've got an old German folding bike with Sachs automatic gears however its only 2 gears, it defaults to a low gear for moving off and then when it spins up enough it goes to its high gear. Ideal for a folding bike due to the fold in the middle. Of course the rear brake is also a coaster brake so no cable needed there either so no cables run to the back of the bike only a single cable for the front brake. It was made by the company that later because Audi, NSU I think or maybe it was the company that became NSU.

[rareposter]

Coming soon .... Di2 + AI .... maybe.

Di2 already does synchro shifting which is a semi-automatic thing that can (if you enable it) shift gears sequentially or auto-shift the rear when you manually change the front.
So going from small chainring -> big chainring (or vice versa) can be a fairly big step but the system auto-shifts the rear mech one or two gears the other way to compensate a bit and make it less of a step.

It happens pretty much instantly.

Not full auto but very much an automatic assist.

Certainly the next big idea for city and commuting bikes where always being in the right gear for moving off at traffic lights etc will be a massive help.

[jimlews]

Anyone remember the Deal Drive from mid 1970s - an expanding chainwheel system that looked rather more robust than this offering
It came to nothing, as I expect this will also. Does have a sort of antique charm.

Expanding chainsets are a perennial new invention.

EDIT:
"Expanding chainwheels must compete with front derailleurs and double or triple cranksets, both of which are lighter, cheaper and more resistant to dirt".
Frank Berto

[Cowsham]

In 2021 I had a go on an electric ice trike with Di2 automatic gears -- GetCycling York --- ( they do bikes and trikes for disabled people -- my wife wanted to see hence we paid them visit ) --- also had a go on the non electric ice trike with normal manual shifter gearing.

The electric ice trike had the facility to change from paddle shift to full auto shift.

https://www.getcycling.org.uk

Unlike a lot of bigger bike shops Demos are available on most bikes.

Both trikes were great to ride.

[rogerzilla]

The problem with automatic shifting on bikes is that the rider wants different gearing depending on how he/she feels. Most of us pedal slower when we're tired at the end of a long ride.

A car engine doesn't get tired or have bad days, and therefore automatic gear selection is acceptable to many drivers.

I suppose Shimano will introduce "sport" and "endurance" modes to work around this.

[Cowsham]

The problem with automatic shifting on bikes is that the rider wants different gearing depending on how he/she feels. Most of us pedal slower when we're tired at the end of a long ride.

A car engine doesn't get tired or have bad days, and therefore automatic gear selection is acceptable to many drivers.

I suppose Shimano will introduce "sport" and "endurance" modes to work around this.

From memory I'm nearly sure you can set the effort / change. ( ice trike )

[rareposter]

The problem with automatic shifting on bikes is that the rider wants different gearing depending on how he/she feels. Most of us pedal slower when we're tired at the end of a long ride.

A car engine doesn't get tired or have bad days, and therefore automatic gear selection is acceptable to many drivers.

I suppose Shimano will introduce "sport" and "endurance" modes to work around this.

It's worth watching the video on how it works towards the bottom of this page:
https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technolo ... shift.html

Most of this auto-shift stuff is designed to work on e-bikes. It'll work (to a certain extent) with electronic gears but the true auto shift and the next step up which is free shift (where the motor spins the gears to change them while you're freewheeling) is really something else, it's very clever. Really quite customisable too via the connecting app. It'll ensure for example that if you've climbed a steep hill then started a descent, when you begin pedaling again, you're not in the same super low gear you were at the top of the hill, it will have auto-shifted to the correct gear to pick up the pedals immediately you start pedaling.

Specialized's new Tero X 6 e-bike has gone further with its app functionality - the motor can be fine-tuned in the app to alter how much power you get in the different modes available. It will also enable you to plan routes and state how much battery life you’d like left when you get there, allowing the onboard computer to take care of the details for you. So if you want to ride out to a halfway point and know that you'll have 52% of battery life left for the way home, you can do that. You can even pair the app to your pacemaker to ensure you don’t exceed a certain BPM - the motor will provide more power if your HR starts to get close to a preset limit.

Honestly. there's a whole new world of biking out there for so many people.

I've done ride leading with folk who seem to think their bike has 2 gears. First hint of an uphill they'll be banging the gears as far left as possible, straight into the lowest gear cos they've heard that spinning up climbs is good. First hint of a descent, all the way back down to the right, the highest gear possible cos they've heard that you need a high gear for going downhill.
The interim 20 gears seem to be redundant! Quite honestly, if they had an auto shift system that looked at cadence, power, speed and gradient, they'd have a far more enjoyable ride!

It's not dissimilar to the car analogy
A car engine doesn't get tired or have bad days, and therefore automatic gear selection is acceptable to many drivers

Unless you are a pro-rally driver, auto is far better for pretty much everyone. All that clutch, bite point, change, repeat at every set of lights, hold the car on a hill start, go up through the gears, stop at the next set of lights and change back down again....
MUCH easier and more efficient to just let the car deal with all that. Modern auto boxes will outperform a human driver every time with quicker shifts timed to the engine revs, it'll never miss a shift or forget to go from 5th to 6th once cruising, it'll never let the car roll back on a hill and it'll use engine braking for regen whereas a human will just de-clutch and coast.

[cycle tramp]

Unless you are a pro-rally driver, auto is far better for pretty much everyone. All that clutch, bite point, change, repeat at every set of lights, hold the car on a hill start, go up through the gears, stop at the next set of lights and change back down again....
MUCH easier and more efficient to just let the car deal with all that.

Er.... no its not. Mpg has always remained better for vehicles with a manual 'box than an automatic 'box... and personally I find driving a manual 'box far more engaging and rewarding than an automatic....

Life is not about 'easier' it is about challenging yourself, growing the skills required and becoming a better person because of it.. 'easier' will eventually have us all stuck to the sofa, eating pop corn and watching TV, until we die, both of boredom and numbness to our own life, having completely divorced ourselves with any 'difficulties' and by doing so robbed our life of one of its biggest joys, that of overcoming our challenges.

#underbiking

[Cowsham]

Er.... no its not. Mpg has always remained better for vehicles with a manual 'box than an automatic 'box... and personally I find driving a manual 'box far more engaging and rewarding than an automatic....

I absolutely disagree there -- imagine a power source that the harder you press the accelerator the faster the machine goes. No gearbox no clutch just forward thrust. The more you press the pedal the harder you sink into the seat. That's a fast machine.

This is 2023 no car should have a gearbox by now.

Back in 1993 William Renault f1 car using cvt was 2 seconds a lap quicker than any existing f1 car at the silverstone circuit ( I think ) in testing but as soon as the race organizers got wind of it they banned cvt before it made it to the first race. 2 seconds a lap in f1 is a quantum leap.

Check this out
https://youtu.be/P0lWdUXwVJs?feature=shared

I knew about cvt at that time because we had a 93 Ford fiesta with cvt so followed the progress of f1 cars but after it was banned in f1 I lost all interest in the race series.

This "was" supposed to be the blue ribbon pinnacle of motor sport where new concepts and innovation got tested and filtered through to road vehicles -- not anymore unfortunately.

We bought cvt cars after the fiesta because they were always more economical to run and better to drive. Our last Toyota was a yaris T spirit -- look up the spec for that compared to it's hybrid or manual equivalent. It was quite fast due to it's 1300 engine and cvt gearbox.

Good news is electric cars are even better to drive and more economical than cvt.

[rareposter]

Er.... no its not. Mpg has always remained better for vehicles with a manual 'box than an automatic 'box...

The early auto boxes, yes. Modern ones are at least as efficient, usually better. As Cowsham says ^^.

Life is not about 'easier' it is about challenging yourself, growing the skills required and becoming a better person because of it..

These systems are aimed at leisure, commuter and utility cyclists.

Most cyclists at that end of the spectrum barely know how many gears their bike has never mind ratios and sequential shifting and chainline. Many don't even know what brand of bike they're on! And when commuting to work, they don't want an "involving" ride and to be challenged, they want a reliable machine to get there and back.

For that purpose, things like e-bikes with auto-shift are amazing. They're enabling, they're fun and you don't need to have gone through some hierarchy of club cycling or learning to get there, you don't need to suffer trying to pull away from the lights in too high a gear. It minimises mechanical wear and tear and - although it's complicated internally - it's a very simple end product for the user.

I wish my e-cargo bike had auto-shift, it'd be perfect on that.

Look at it from that point of view because it's not taking anything away from your bike with mechanical gears and no motor (and I have several bikes like that so I'm certainly not slating such a product). It's enabling "non-cyclists" to easily use utility bikes that they otherwise wouldn't consider.

[cycle tramp]

Er.... no its not. Mpg has always remained better for vehicles with a manual 'box than an automatic 'box... and personally I find driving a manual 'box far more engaging and rewarding than an automatic....

I absolutely disagree there -- imagine a power source that the harder you press the accelerator the faster the machine goes. No gearbox no clutch just forward thrust. The more you press the pedal the harder you sink into the seat. That's a fast machine.

It's a documented fact that manual cars have a better mpg, and I know from my driving experience that this is true.
An automatic car will always have to work through each gear in order. When I drive I don't have to do that...

..if I'm desending a slope and the flow of traffic allows me, I have the choice of going from 2nd to 4th or 3rd to 5th... if there's no traffic around whatsoever I can even knock it out of gear and allow it to freewheel (although generally frowned upon) slowing for a junction, I can knock it from 4 to 2 or even arrive at the junction in 1st if I have my speed right down.

No matter how advanced the suto' box is, because I can actually choose my gear selection, i will always achieve a better mpg.

Admittedly these decisions take a little more thought which keeps me focused on my driving - the issue which seems to have escaped everyone's mind is that by making a car easier to drive, the driver less focused on driving it, and as a result not paying attention to the conditions in which they are driving - which makes everyone less safe.