First ride in four months

[fastpedaller]

I can see the benefits to some of a 'lecy help', but also agree to a large extent with Mick's comments. Some questions....... It is mentioned above about an orbea bike that only provides a little assistance when really needed (maybe I've not understood fully?), but what of the energy lost by carrying the extra electric parts (mainly battery I guess) around for the rest of the ride? I guess that is applicable to all electric -assist bikes. A very low gear will get us up a steep hill, or walk if it's too steep - is there really a benefit with electric (apart from maybe the convenience of pressing a button rather than walking) ?

The extra weight of an e-bike compared to an unpowered bike of similar or identical design isn't very much. It can vary from +3 kg to +6 kg. Some designs allow the battery (heaviest part of the system) and even the motor to be removed, leaving an ordinary bile with maybe +1 kg of extra weight over its unmotored equivalent design. These additional weights are nothing significant, in terms of the additional rider power needed to ride the bike.

An example: I have an e-bike that weighs 13.5 kg with the motor & battery in; 10.5 kg without them in but an empty motor/battery case inserted into the frame instead (which is a very handy carrier for cakes and clothing).

Most e-bikes can actually be programmed by the user via some sort of app to set various levels of assistance, as well as the relationship between varying rider power levels that invoke varying motor power additions. For example, I generally use the motor only when going up hills at the lowest assist level I've set of maximum +75 watts. To get the full 75 watts from the motor I have to input at least 150 watts at the pedals. If I input less, the motor power decreases too, on a sliding scale down to 100 watts from me = 0 watts from the motor.

These motor-to-rider power relationships can be set at whatever you like; and generally there are three or four such relationships available at the press of a button. The highest I have set means the motor will give 200 watts if I input 75 watts at the pedals. This is my "get you home if bonked" setting which I've never had to use. The middle setting will see the motor give me 150 watts if I input 225 watts at the pedals. This is my "eyeballs out get up the long steep hills without dying" setting, used rarely and often not at all on a particular ride.

I spend most of my pedal-pushing time of a ride with the motor off and disengaged. I can generally get between 150 - 200 km from one battery charge of 250 WH, so a battery charge lasts me for 3 or 4 typical +/- 50 km rides.

If I lived in the flatlands, I wouldn't have a motor. But as I live in the ultra-hilly hinterlands of West Wales, the motor is often the difference between getting home exhausted and getting home with just a fine endorphin glow. In fact, I'll tackle any route now, no matter how many black arrows on it, as the e-bike gives confidence you won't go phut miles from home.

Oh, and I still go out on 50% of my rides (the easier ones) on other bikes with no motor in them.

That's interesting - thanks for taking the time/effort to enlighten myself (and maybe others)
It's certainly not just 'sit up and beg' electric bikes with a push button that I've seen.

[rareposter]

I don't get how this thread about Mick going for a ride has become full of unasked for advice about electric bikes, which he's stated he's not interested in. I'm sure he knows where the sub-section of the forum is regarding electric bikes should he become interested in the future.

To be fair, it's hardly the first thread on here to go wildly off topic!

And as mentioned ^^, a comment about how an e-bike might help with returning to fitness, coping with hills etc has got many other folk who do use e-bikes for that purpose commenting on how good they are.

Maybe MickF will become the latest convert!

[Airsporter1st]

As a result, I am now able to cycle longer distances without having to face the ignominy of having to get off and push the last bit of my journey!

What's the ignominy of pushing a bike up a hill? After all it's an exercise which promotes bone density.

Risk of shame and embarrassment is part of what drives me in life, both physically and mentally, to achieve more. I note the usual suspect claiming its an ego thing (apparently in a derogatory sense) but have no problem accepting that. Different strokes etc.

[horizon]

I don't get how this thread about Mick going for a ride has become full of unasked for advice about electric bikes, which he's stated he's not interested in. I'm sure he knows where the sub-section of the forum is regarding electric bikes should he become interested in the future.

I think the context here is really important. I too live in a steep-sided valley in Cornwall and recognise only too well how this affects one's anticipation of a local ride.

So yes, I do tackle the hills but if I'm setting out to our local town ten miles away I take the branch line on the uphill journey there and cycle back. It's still hilly but the sting is taken out of it (time pressures also play their part).

So, just as one might recommend that the OP fits a bike rack to his car, I'm not sure how my taking the train or someone driving to a good cycling spot is much different from riding an ebike. One could argue though that once you are on your bike, then the fitness challenge is always there - you cannot switch it off (or switch a motor on) and for me that's important - a bike is always a bike.

But the issue really changes as soon as one has a specific destination or time in mind: commuting to work, keeping up with friends, carrying a load, getting to a specific place beyond a very steep hill. Then we are in this grey zone between cycling and motorized transport - after all, to achieve my forthcoming trip across southern England in the time I have allowed, I must indeed take the train at least part of the way. I've planned this trip around the train so the bike is fine. But another trip I regularly do by car (or get a lift) doesn't work with either bike or train - it's just too far/hilly to do it there and back in the time available. But an ebike would do it. So this might force my hand.

My advice to the OP (and I really understand his objections to the ebike) would be to fit a rack on the car and get out on the hills from another starting point. Eventually he might get fit enough to tackle the local hill.

[Mick F]

As for pushing up a hill, living in deep valley needs a steady climb.
However, I often walk up Stony Lane .............. double chevrons ............... as it is quicker and easier than riding up the main road.

Note the long downhill. It may be further, but it's easier.

[CliveyT]

As for pushing up a hill, living in deep valley needs a steady climb.
However, I often walk up Stony Lane .............. double chevrons ............... as it is quicker and easier than riding up the main road.

Note the long downhill. It may be further, but it's easier.

And it goes past the pub- win++

[Mick F]

That would be on the way home of course.

[Ron]

. A very low gear will get us up a steep hill, or walk if it's too steep - is there really a benefit with electric (apart from maybe the convenience of pressing a button rather than walking) ?

You ask if there is a benefit, yes there is if you are unable to walk up hills or make progress against the wind whilst pushing a bike.
I suspect many older cyclists stop or at least limit their cycling due to hills or headwinds. The date on which we stop cycling can be extended well into the future if we accept the ebike.

[Mick F]

"We" may accept the eBike, but I will not.

If you have some "help" you will use it. The temptation is too great. If I can't ride, I won't.
I've had eBike riders overtake me up hills, me doing circa 5mph, they doing circa 15mph.
What's the point?

I've almost lost count of the times I've ridden to Plymouth and got the train home.
When I was riding over all the bridges of the A30 and A38 and visited all the Parish churches in Cornwall, I used the car to get me into the right vicinity.

Some years ago, I rode to Exeter and back - 50miles each way. I wouldn't even consider riding that distance again and an eBike wouldn't tempt me in the slightest.

[rareposter]

"We" may accept the eBike, but I will not.

If you have some "help" you will use it. The temptation is too great. If I can't ride, I won't.

Faced with a choice of "not riding" (because the hills are too steep / where I want to go is too far for my aging body) or "ride it on an e-bike", I'd be on the e-bike in a heartbeat!

I've seen how amazing they are at enabling people who wouldn't normally ride to get out and cycle, that freedom they give, the exercise benefits....

I mean the logical conclusion to your argument if you go far enough back is that cars are artificially helping you, a lift or escalator is artificial help, shoes are artificial help to the purity of walking....

[jimlews]

Yegods ! Preserve us from e-bike missionaries !!

[George goodyear]

"We" may accept the eBike, but I will not.

If you have some "help" you will use it. The temptation is too great. If I can't ride, I won't.

Faced with a choice of "not riding" (because the hills are too steep / where I want to go is too far for my aging body) or "ride it on an e-bike", I'd be on the e-bike in a heartbeat!

I've seen how amazing they are at enabling people who wouldn't normally ride to get out and cycle, that freedom they give, the exercise benefits....

I mean the logical conclusion to your argument if you go far enough back is that cars are artificially helping you, a lift or escalator is artificial help, shoes are artificial help to the purity of walking....

Agree apart from your final para!

[Cugel]

"We" may accept the eBike, but I will not.

If you have some "help" you will use it. The temptation is too great. If I can't ride, I won't.
.......

Dear Mick,

You seem addicted to the idee-fixe, which is a terrible affliction as eventually it will cause you to ossify completely, possibly in an armchair or glued to a stool in the pub. There are many ways to use an e-bike, just as there many ways to use an un-motored bike.

The notion that a bit of tech that makes your cycling easier is A Bad Thing really means you should have a hobby horse, since them pedal things and gears(shock-horror!) not to mention the inflatable tyres are making it easy for you to ride a bike, so you do.

Yours Sincerely,
Cugel the adaptable.

[Cugel]

Yegods ! Preserve us from e-bike missionaries !!

GREAT DAY IN THE MORNING! YE DAFTIES OF DECREPITUDE - SEE THE LIGHT AND GET YOUR E_BIKE NOW!!!!

Pastor Cugel, at full preach.

[pjclinch]

Yegods ! Preserve us from e-bike missionaries !!

There's quite the difference between evangelists telling us we should all be on e-bikes and pragmatists saying that it's actually okay to have some assistance if it's appropriate.

My wife likes to move under her own steam, but has a couple of e-assist options available for pragmatic reasons. The cargo trike may be moving loads of 100+ Kg about and Dundee is Not Flat, so it's the e-trike or the van. The e-trike still involves exercise, costs less to run, takes up less road space and is cleaner, so deciding not to use it is an own-goal on several levels. Her e-folder is used to commute between campsites and ceramics shows, potentially 10+ miles over hills and in to headwinds, and when she arrives there's nowhere to shower/change and she needs to be able to present a professional front to customers. And the alternative is driving the van there, again that's less exercise, more pollution, more cost and more road danger. I don't see how that's a good thing, but it's where "I'm not using an e-bike!" can get you.

When I get to the point I can't have an enjoyable ride out on an acoustic bike I'll be getting some powered help. I'll regret not being able to do all the work myself, but I won't regret moving through the landscape in the open air having a nice day because being self-powered is only part of the gig.

Pete.