Cycling UK Forum

This is a note I sent to Herts Highways Department recently:

'Message from user: Re:1. The Old Coach Road, Cole Green to Hertingfordbury.
2. Panshanger Lane, B1000 to A 414
Yesterday I rode both these roads.
Whereas one week ago both roads were in excellent condition, in need of neither repair nor re surfacing, they have now been covered in 2 miles worth of loose gravel at, presumably, enormous expense and are dangerous to motor and cycle traffic.
Can you tell me why you have wasted large sums of money on completely unnecessary work.
You do of course have a history of similar actions, the A1057 comes to mind,parts of this road having been relaid on several occasions for no obvious reason.
The stretch of this road that actually needs work, outside the Wickes store, has naturally been neglected'.
x x x

Has anyone else encountered similar 'Repairs'?
Both roads, in the Hertford-Hatfield area, carry 1 car about every 10-15 minutes.
I did once shout at the workers on the A1057 who were engaged on this work, 'There's nothing wrong with this Bxxxx road' and was rewarded with a smirk.

Sounds like they were surface dressing? A short inconvenience for something, we are told, to look after your investment.

Surface dressing is a good thing - it maintains the waterproof layer on top of the road and prevents potholes from forming. And it is important to do before potholes start to form (so it is preventative maintenance, rather than repair) rather in the same way you would repaint your window frames before they started to rot.

However, it sounds like this was badly done maintenance. Really, the chippings should be rolled into the asphalt and loose ones swept up as part of the job - and ideally a finer grade of chippings used to leave a smoother riding surface. Too often course chippings are scattered all over the place and the task of rolling left to motorists.
.

There's the issue of grip too. They run grip testers over the road, and resurface when the friction's no longer up to standard.

Here in Norfolk they surface dress by slinging down about 70mm of chippings which on the minor roads becomes a real hazard - 2 tyre tracks are formed, with a peak in the middle of the road. the (unrideable) centre of the road then entraps grass and weed seeds which grow in abundance. Two other issues are that the wheel tracks are really hazardous and filled with water (or in the Winter, ice!) and any potholes previous to the surface dressing are often left infilled until the 'chipping lorry' comes along, meaning it's impossible to see the '70mm + hole depth' hazard which almost instantly stops the bike! They just don't care.
I envisage that in a few years some of the roads will have such a camber formed by repetition of this method, that it will be impossible to ride a bike along them.
However much I try to report, the 'report closed' message comes from a 'NOREPLY' e-mail address. We are all paying the wages of these people!

Ah top dressing, as said above; done to allegedly protect the road. Quite a few local roads have been done recently but credit where credit is due they do seem to be using a finer grade gravel so it is a smoother surface and the loose stuff is swept up then a further seal of tar is put down.
Not sure about the prevention of potholes, it doesn't take long before wear patches can appear making the road a rougher place to ride..

Even worse is the anti-skid surface put down on top of roads at junctions and crossings, it quickly comes up and takes underlying road surface with it, creating a very poor surface to ride over.

Somerset county council publish a schedule for surface dressing so one can check which roads are about to be chipped. Gives one a chance to avoid them until the top surface has bedded down. Other councils may well do the same.

Here's the schedule for Somerset highways. https://www.somerset.gov.uk/roads-trave ... -dressing/

Done well, it is actually quite good.
Unfortunately, most councils lack the funds or expertise to do it well so resort to the cheap option of letting the traffic bed the chippings down. The correct way of doing it (rolling the chippings into the tar, letting it dry then sweeping up the excess) gives a well-sealed and fairly grippy road surface. Problems arise on rural roads in particular where it's not sealed at the edges - where the road just runs directly into a soft verge - so it tends to crumble from there inwards over winter and when water runs down the side. Urban roads, with a solid kerb, are normally a bit more reliable.

The other problem of course is that there are so many utilities under the roads - pipes, cables etc - that the roads end up being dug up again and again, patchwork repairs, water in the joins and everything falls to bits again very quickly.

A lot of roads on the continent have the utilities in a separate culvert to one side, accessed through hatches, so there's no need to constantly dig the road up for repairs.

Indeed, the surface dressing can be done well, her in Norfolk during 2012 it was done well - I even send an email to the Council saying how good it was compared to previous years! Alas (I guess) they haven't used the same contractor since 2012.

Pete Owens wrote: ↑5 Jul 2023, 8:32pm Surface dressing is a good thing - it maintains the waterproof layer on top of the road and prevents potholes from forming. And it is important to do before potholes start to form (so it is preventative maintenance, rather than repair) rather in the same way you would repaint your window frames before they started to rot.

So why haven't I seen it done here in Germany? The roads generally are in much better condition than in Britain. I drove in Britain in May and had to be very alert to avoid wheal-eating chasms. I see such poor condition roads here very exceptionally. Roads are patched, sometimes not that well.

Surface dressing is a curse. The way it is usually done with huge angular chippings results in a very noisy road surface. I notice that tyre noise in Britain is far louder than in Germany because of the roughness of the road surfaces. Noise is stressful for people nearby.

plancashire wrote: ↑6 Jul 2023, 9:23pm So why haven't I seen it done here in Germany? The roads generally are in much better condition than in Britain. I drove in Britain in May and had to be very alert to avoid wheal-eating chasms. I see such poor condition roads here very exceptionally.

IMV, very few things are done better in Britain, and the things that were are not done better now due to austerity, Brexit and Covid.

Ron wrote: ↑6 Jul 2023, 9:44pm

plancashire wrote: ↑6 Jul 2023, 9:23pm So why haven't I seen it done here in Germany? The roads generally are in much better condition than in Britain. I drove in Britain in May and had to be very alert to avoid wheal-eating chasms. I see such poor condition roads here very exceptionally.

IMV, very few things are done better in Britain, and the things that were are not done better now due to austerity, Brexit and Covid.

Was happening long before Brexit and Covid (the 'blame targets' for every bad thing)

Germany uses a greater proportion of GDP for public expenditure than the UK (49% vs 45%), and has a greater GDP per capita than the UK (c66:56 ratio). Bigger slice of a bigger pie. The UK is a poor country in comparison with Germany, but then so are most places.

Roads version of papering over cracks around here. It forms a dangerous ridge in the centre where it's over-banded on the existing white lines and they then slap a white line on top - caveat motorcyclist

plancashire wrote: ↑6 Jul 2023, 9:23pm

Pete Owens wrote: ↑5 Jul 2023, 8:32pm Surface dressing is a good thing - it maintains the waterproof layer on top of the road and prevents potholes from forming. And it is important to do before potholes start to form (so it is preventative maintenance, rather than repair) rather in the same way you would repaint your window frames before they started to rot.

So why haven't I seen it done here in Germany? The roads generally are in much better condition than in Britain.

I can certainly believe that roads in Germany are in much better condition.
I very much doubt that the cause of that is lack of maintenance.
It is likely that they do that maintenance better; the sort of thing I was describing in the bit of my post you snipped to make it appear that I was making the opposite argument.

Pete Owens wrote: ↑5 Jul 2023, 8:32pm However, it sounds like this was badly done maintenance. Really, the chippings should be rolled into the asphalt and loose ones swept up as part of the job - and ideally a finer grade of chippings used to leave a smoother riding surface. Too often course chippings are scattered all over the place and the task of rolling left to motorists.