Do we really understand what’s happening to the cycle trade?

[rareposter]

So what drives the lack of mudguards on bikes? and will they be rediscovered? ( with the price of laundry detergent these days ever rising)

Saves a few £££s on the bike building cost, gives a lower advertised weight and reduces the wind drag.

That ^^ plus it allows more consumer choice and gives the opportunity for the dealer to "upsell" the purchase. Very common sales procedure to add on mudguards, lights, lock, helmet....

[djnotts]

So what drives the lack of mudguards on bikes? and will they be rediscovered? ( with the price of laundry detergent these days ever rising)

Saves a few £££s on the bike building cost, gives a lower advertised weight and reduces the wind drag.

That ^^ plus it allows more consumer choice and gives the opportunity for the dealer to "upsell" the purchase. Very common sales procedure to add on mudguards, lights, lock, helmet....

I once saw a guy who had bought a "road bike" in summer ask the LBS proprietor from whom he had purchased it for mudguards because he had decided to ride in winter.
The owner informed him with some glee that no, wouldn't fit such things ....you'll need a new second bike like this one.......
Poor roadies this last few weeks.

[Cugel]

Saves a few £££s on the bike building cost, gives a lower advertised weight and reduces the wind drag.

That ^^ plus it allows more consumer choice and gives the opportunity for the dealer to "upsell" the purchase. Very common sales procedure to add on mudguards, lights, lock, helmet....

I once saw a guy who had bought a "road bike" in summer ask the LBS proprietor from whom he had purchased it for mudguards because he had decided to ride in winter.
The owner informed him with some glee that no, wouldn't fit such things ....you'll need a new second bike like this one.......
Poor roadies this last few weeks.

Shoulda bought an all-roads bike.

There is a triumph of image over substance throughout a lot of the British cycling "scene", with far too many persuaded that they "need" a full-on racing bike when they'd actually go faster for longer and in more comfort in the cycling they actually do (very few race) with what's come to be called an "all-roads" bike. These are something like an audax bike but with aspects of other bike-types that keep them efficient and "fast" whilst having all the conveniences and abilities of touring bike, cross bike, gravel bike et al.

So many, even in the club I was in for decades, buy a racing bike of the "pure" kind then go about on it whilst feeling uncomfortable yet oblivious to the small go-faster details like tyre pressures, a clean chain and the fact that properly fitted mudguards can not only keep them and their bike cleaner but also make it go faster!

https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-3- ... -you-down/

[djnotts]

^ cugel: "There is a triumph of image over substance throughout a lot of the British cycling "scene", with far too many persuaded that they "need" a full-on racing bike when they'd actually go faster for longer and in more comfort in the cycling they actually do (very few race) with what's come to be called an "all-roads" bike. These are something like an audax bike but with aspects of other bike-types that keep them efficient and "fast" whilst having all the conveniences and abilities of touring bike, cross bike, gravel bike et al."

Absolutely agree. But are there many such from which to choose? Off the shop floor? Doesn't seem so to me, but I don't look very closely because hardly any have gearing I need - I see a 1x and know not for me!

[Galactic]

There is a triumph of image over substance throughout a lot of the British cycling "scene", with far too many persuaded that they "need" a full-on racing bike when they'd actually go faster for longer and in more comfort in the cycling they actually do (very few race) with what's come to be called an "all-roads" bike. These are something like an audax bike but with aspects of other bike-types that keep them efficient and "fast" whilst having all the conveniences and abilities of touring bike, cross bike, gravel bike et al.

Nowt new though, is it? I seem to remember everyone wanting a racer in the 1980s (as Cugel possibly alludes to in his next paragraph), and what's more, there was a fad for 6 inch (or so) long mudguards back in the 80s. They were stupid to look at and I've no doubt they were only marginally more effective than the proverbial chocolate teapot. My point being that all the inanities and inexplicables we're attributing to the current cycle trade in this thread are merely repeats, sequels and rehashes of old practices.

Maybe it's us that's changed? Many of us here have gained experience and fancy ourselves less prone to falling victim to fashion, and are therefore more critical of capitalist silliness.

[rareposter]

The mudguard thing I'd be inclined to put down to the shop owner being unwilling to special order in one set of guards (at what, £30-ish?) and then probably being forced to fit them FOC to the bike. Although I might just have said that rather than any nonsense about mudguards not fitting because unless it really was a wildly specific bike, chances are there's a set of guards that'll fit - there are way more options than when I was working in shops and we always found something to fit, even if they were those largely ineffective plastic seatpost-mounted things.

My SKS Raceblade clip on guards fit all of my road bikes (with a bit of minor adjustment between a couple of them) and - although they're not full length traditional touring style guards - they're very effective.

There is a triumph of image over substance throughout a lot of the British cycling "scene", with far too many persuaded that they "need" a full-on racing bike when they'd actually go faster for longer and in more comfort in the cycling they actually do (very few race) with what's come to be called an "all-roads" bike. These are something like an audax bike but with aspects of other bike-types that keep them efficient and "fast" whilst having all the conveniences and abilities of touring bike, cross bike, gravel bike et al.

I think there's a lot of that across a lot of industries - how many of us have a phone or camera or computer that is capable of all manner of things but actually used for about 5% of those capabilities?!
I remember selling what, at the time, was an absolutely top of the range MTB, full XTR, all the bells and whistles and the buyer had no interest in any of the suspension settings or tyre pressures, eh simply wanted the most expensive bike in the shop and he admitted he was only going to ride it around the park. As a shop, we're not going to say no to that!

But are there many such from which to choose? Off the shop floor? Doesn't seem so to me, but I don't look very closely because hardly any have gearing I need - I see a 1x and know not for me!

You'd be surprised how closely you can replicate and even exceed the range of a 3x10 with a 1x12.

Having MTB gradually drop to 2x and then eventually 1x was one of the better moves for a whole range of reasons and thankfully a lot of utility and leisure bikes are going the same way, either using 1x derailleur systems or using an internal hub gear. Less complexity, less to go wrong, less for the customer to understand, lighter, easier to clean, same (or in many cases wider) gear range.

[djnotts]

^ 1 x 12 with a 38 ring and 11-50 rear yields 20-91". I assume can go bigger at front but bottom gear will increase. A road triple and 10 speed can give 19-120". And the parts are cheaper.

[Jdsk]

...
Maybe it's us that's changed? Many of us here have gained experience and fancy ourselves less prone to falling victim to fashion, and are therefore more critical of capitalist silliness.

It could be. But it's hard to distinguish within-individual change from selection towards people with unrepresentative views. When I show some threads in this forum to nonenthusiast cyclists and people who don't cycle at all they're often met with some amazement.

That's why I'm particularly interested in the contributors on this topic who work in the trade or cooperatives or training. They combine expert knowledge with contact with non-expert cyclists and potential cyclists.

Jonathan

[Cowsham]

In my opinion the last 10 years have been a golden age for bicycles or maybe just non electric bicycles but just think it's slowing down now along with demand.

[Bmblbzzz]

^ 1 x 12 with a 38 ring and 11-50 rear yields 20-91". I assume can go bigger at front but bottom gear will increase. A road triple and 10 speed can give 19-120". And the parts are cheaper.

The cassette and rear mech might be cheaper for a triple – but the front mech and chain rings aren't!

[Cugel]

^ cugel: "There is a triumph of image over substance throughout a lot of the British cycling "scene", with far too many persuaded that they "need" a full-on racing bike when they'd actually go faster for longer and in more comfort in the cycling they actually do (very few race) with what's come to be called an "all-roads" bike. These are something like an audax bike but with aspects of other bike-types that keep them efficient and "fast" whilst having all the conveniences and abilities of touring bike, cross bike, gravel bike et al."

Absolutely agree. But are there many such from which to choose? Off the shop floor? Doesn't seem so to me, but I don't look very closely because hardly any have gearing I need - I see a 1x and know not for me!

In practice, many bikes now called "gravel" are in fact more "all-road" in that they have fittings for everything (mudguards, front & rear racks, wide or narrower tyres, etc.) and a geometry that's a compromise between road and off road. Many have 1X gearing but others have a double chainset that also has the benefit of being lower geared, such as the Shimano GRX 30/46.

If I wuz still 30 years old with the associated low income but a large lust for cycling, that's the single bike I would buy now, rather than the full-on racing bike I had then with a cheap-as-possible touring/winter bike.

[plancashire]

So what drives the lack of mudguards on bikes? and will they be rediscovered? ( with the price of laundry detergent these days ever rising)

Saves a few £££s on the bike building cost, gives a lower advertised weight and reduces the wind drag.

That ^^ plus it allows more consumer choice and gives the opportunity for the dealer to "upsell" the purchase. Very common sales procedure to add on mudguards, lights, lock, helmet....

Here in Germany if you buy a city bike or a trekking bike you get mudguards and lights, occasionally a lock too but not an effective one. You even get luggage racks. In the city I live in only about 25% of people wear helmets from my occasional counted surveys, so that's not a big deal for bike shops.

The bikes sold in Britain are different. They are mostly for sport, not transport.

[rareposter]

The bikes sold in Britain are different. They are mostly for sport, not transport.

Yes absolutely. It got mentioned a few pages back as well - the UK market is a very niche part of an already fairly niche market in the first place; a very high focus on performance and "cycling as a hobby" rather than utility and "cycling as a normal part of daily life".

[Wipperman_95]

Anybody who's watched 'Bikefit James' on You Tube, will know he's often banging the drum about people buying the wrong bikes; many want the bikes the pros ride - forgetting the're 20 somethings putting out xx watts for 5-6 hours. Not sitting at a desk 9-5 daily......

I also think far too many cycle channels/ media are too obsessed with the performance side of cycling.........

[rareposter]

A few stats from Strava (via Cycling Electric) showing the rise in e-bike use:

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/e- ... end-report

Obviously to be taken with a pinch of salt since plenty of people riding bikes don't record their rides on Strava (or maybe (like me) they record their leisure rides but not utility rides) but it's an indication of how strong the e-bike side of the market is.