Sturmey identification and diagram.

[peetee]

I’ve been rooting around in my ‘projects for a rainy day’ drawer and found this Sturmey 5 speed hub. It was assembled but with a good 4mm of axle movement side-to-side. I have disassembled to see if it’s anything obvious but now need to find a service document to reassemble it. Trouble is, Sheldon Brown suggests that the alloy hub was introduced at a later date than the 1986 stamp on this shell. Or am I reading the wrong number and is it a 2007?

[Carlton green]

I’m sure that it was in the early 1980’s that I had an alloy shell S5/2.

Try looking on the Hadland site for details: https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/s52.pdf

With expert and experienced hands one of the five speed hubs might go together and be reliable too, but (four decades ago) mine was a liability to me.

[PT1029]

07 86 will be July 1986

You could also try SA Heritage (says not secure, but it comes up with SA stuff) www.sturmey-archerheritage.com

Most 5 speed models of that era had "issues". About that time a friend had a 5 speed SA, he gave up on it when some of the internals broke through the alloy shell.
I expect Brucey will enlighten us more in a while.

[hoogerbooger]

Yes looks like an alloy S5/2. SA heritage site shows it. Link should provide a exploded diagram:

http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/i ... ail&id=131

[peetee]

Ok. So it looks like it’s a twin cable hub. So it must be different to the one I was expecting to find.
Guess my projects set-aside area must be more extensive than I remember.
Thanks for the help folks.

[jimlews]

That would be the twin cable hub.

But those Five Speed Alloy hubs are suspect.
If you look inside the shell, you will see a pressed in steel insert; a series ramps cast into the interior of the shell with steel 'fingers' of the insert between. This is the low gear pawl ratchet.
The trouble is that the tips of the ratchet pawls act at the bottom of the alloy ramp and press on the interior of the hub. It is by no means unheard of for the low gear pawls to burst through the alloy shell, taking the spoke flange with it. This is especially likely if you live in hilly terrain such as a lumpy granite massif
Best bet would be to source a steel S5 shell or an AW shell date stamped prior to 4/84
Or a steel FW shell. Or a Steel AM shell.
Cycle jumble time.

[peetee]

The trouble is that the tips of the ratchet pawls act at the bottom of the alloy ramp and press on the interior of the hub. It is by no means unheard of for the low gear pawls to burst through the alloy shell, taking the spoke flange with it. This is especially likely if you live in hilly terrain such as a lumpy granite massif

Would it still be likely if one suffered a mid-life-crime-de-sans-velo and on returning to the saddle one’s once eager, lean, hungry-for-competition legs had been reduced to a pair of soggy Twiglets?

[Carlton green]

Best bet would be to source a steel S5 shell or an AW shell date stamped prior to 4/84
Or a steel FW shell. Or a Steel AM shell.
Cycle jumble time.

Best bet, certainly a gamble.

Those old Sturmey’s did work for some people so one put together right should work in the Alloy Shell build. Mine was unreliable but whether that was down to my spanner work, poor design or poor manufacture I don’t know. To my mind and in no particular order the options are:

# Very carefully rebuild as is and see if it works - some of them must have worked. The OP will need a control lever and maybe some indicator rods - different rods are used on each side. Spare parts are likely in very limited supply.
# Find and use an appropriate steel shell, but the hub might fail for other reasons and getting the right shell has its issues too. However if the five speed fails and the right shell is used then you might be able to put an AW in it.
# Give up on the idea of using that old five speed SA hub and use a second hand three speed AW instead. I took that route several years back and so far it’s worked out well for me - in practise, with thoughtful choice of overall gearing, the AW’s can be surprisingly useful.
# Use some other make of hub gear.
# Leave things as they are, and maybe pass on / sell the five speed SA for spares or repair - it’ll be useful to somebody.

[jimlews]

Best bet would be to source a steel S5 shell or an AW shell date stamped prior to 4/84
Or a steel FW shell. Or a Steel AM shell.
Cycle jumble time.

Best bet, certainly a gamble.

Those old Sturmey’s did work for some people so one put together right should work in the Alloy Shell build. Mine was unreliable but whether that was down to my spanner work, poor design or poor manufacture I don’t know.

Life is a gambol !

Carlton, I think we on this site know that you like your AW.
But "Brucey" has posted quite a lot on here about making the S5 reliable.
It is doable and once done, it's a nice gear. People have toured on them.
I've met a few on the road.
FWIW.
I prefer the FW. It has the bottom four gears of the S5; or rather the S5 enables
the selection of the latent fifth gear of the FW.

My criticism of ALL pre Taiwanese Sturmeys is the limited gear range.
I like a hybrid system; in my case, an FW with a four sprocket driver and a triple chainset.
A nice range of gears and entertaining to operate.

[Carlton green]

Life is a gambol !

Carlton, I think we on this site know that you like your AW.
But "Brucey" has posted quite a lot on here about making the S5 reliable.
It is doable and once done, it's a nice gear. People have toured on them.
I've met a few on the road.

Indeed life is a gamble. I’m not one for risks and always try to massage the odds in my favour, well that and never place a bet that you can’t afford to loose.

Like my AW, , oh dear, there might be little more boring than a zealous convert, sorry.

Getting the S5 reliable. Well, yes, with aid from the likes of Brucey an S5 might well deliver and live up to positive expectations. To quote myself: “Those old Sturmey’s did work for some people so one put together right should work in the Alloy Shell build.” If the OP decides to take on the challenge then I hope that he succeeds and I wish him well.

[jimlews]

Life is a gambol !

Carlton, I think we on this site know that you like your AW.
But "Brucey" has posted quite a lot on here about making the S5 reliable.
It is doable and once done, it's a nice gear. People have toured on them.
I've met a few on the road.

Indeed life is a gamble. I’m not one for risks and always try to massage the odds in my favour, well that and never place a bet that you can’t afford to loose.

Like my AW, , oh dear, there might be little more boring than a zealous convert, sorry.

Getting the S5 reliable. Well, yes, with aid from the likes of Brucey an S5 might well deliver and live up to positive expectations. To quote myself: “Those old Sturmey’s did work for some people so one put together right should work in the Alloy Shell build.” If the OP decides to take on the challenge then I hope that he succeeds and I wish him well.

"Life is a gambol"
Note the spelling.
To quote Roger Rabbit " Only if it's funny",
or in this case fun.
Messing with Sturmeys is fun !

"Like my AW..."
I for one, am happy to hear much more from you on the subject.

[Carlton green]

Thanks Jim

"Life is a gambol"
Note the spelling.

Ah, yes, h’mm. Oh well, dyslexia rules, K.O.

[hoogerbooger]

I like a hybrid system; in my case, an FW with a four sprocket driver and a triple chainset.
A nice range of gears and entertaining to operate.

Blimey.....you could never get bored with that arrangement !!! I thought it was fun finding the right gear with a 2 sprocket FW and Schlumpf speed drive on my Brompton.

Dare you to do a 5 speed conversion......and move on up from 3 to 4 gear levers !

I do like the AW for it simplicity and reliability....but I don't think I could cope with it's gear range and steps on it's own. Too hilly in Wales, I'm getting old ......and don't eat enough spinach.

Edit: Just been looking at S5 diagrams. Not totally sure all are up for conversion to a Brucey/Hadland style 5 speed ?? I suspect they are and the differing HSA numbers are just that they varied the axle lengths a few. times. As it already has a the 5 speed sun pinions. The main issues are the hub shell as raised above......and how to operate a LH control rod: bell crank, or Lauterwasser mechanism.......both of which require some shed time and part finding/adapting.

[jimlews]

I like a hybrid system; in my case, an FW with a four sprocket driver and a triple chainset.
A nice range of gears and entertaining to operate.

Blimey.....you could never get bored with that arrangement !!! I thought it was fun finding the right gear with a 2 sprocket FW and Schlumpf speed drive on my Brompton.

Dare you to do a 5 speed converversion......and move on up from 3 to 4 gear levers !

I do like the AW for it simplicity and reliability....but I don't think I could cope with it's gear range and steps on it's own. Too hilly in Wales, I'm getting old......and don't eat enough spinach.

Ha Ha, yes.
48 ratios, but of course, some combinations are never used.
The main object of the exercise is to obtain low gears now that 14-34t freewheels are stupid prices and unreliable. Take a bow, IRD.
Actually, this combo started out with a 'five in the can', but I found that I didn't have much use for the +50% increase. And 60 ratios
was perhaps, a trifle excessive. So I swapped in an FW axle. I'm mostly in the 3rd gear of the Sturmey, which is direct drive of course.
In first (hub) gear, I have to hold the trigger in position, otherwise it jumps into second. This endearing quirk will be well known to FW users.

[Philip Benstead]

I like a hybrid system; in my case, an FW with a four sprocket driver and a triple chainset.
A nice range of gears and entertaining to operate.

Blimey.....you could never get bored with that arrangement !!! I thought it was fun finding the right gear with a 2 sprocket FW and Schlumpf speed drive on my Brompton.

Dare you to do a 5 speed converversion......and move on up from 3 to 4 gear levers !

I do like the AW for it simplicity and reliability....but I don't think I could cope with it's gear range and steps on it's own. Too hilly in Wales, I'm getting old......and don't eat enough spinach.

Ha Ha, yes.
48 ratios, but of course, some combinations are never used.
The main object of the exercise is to obtain low gears now that 14-34t freewheels are stupid prices and unreliable. Take a bow, IRD.
Actually, this combo started out with a 'five in the can', but I found that I didn't have much use for the +50% increase. And 60 ratios
was perhaps, a trifle excessive. So I swapped in an FW axle. I'm mostly in the 3rd gear of the Sturmey, which is direct drive of course.
In first (hub) gear, I have to hold the trigger in position, otherwise it jumps into second. This endearing quirk will be well known to FW users.

Can we have some photographs?