Cycling UK Forum

Anyone filed the tags off a deopout hanger ?Conversely,has a wheel ever become detached from a bike due to some sort of dropout failure due to a lack of them ?

Do you mean the lips that protrude around the slot which force you to undo the nut or QR quite a lot to free the wheel? Some bikes use washers with a hooked tab that fits into a small slot in the dropout to achieve the same end.

No, I haven't removed these. The Brompton has hooked washers; the tout terrain and the Wester Ross do not have them. I have never experienced a wheel dropping out or even becoming loose.

The things are there to protect bike manufacturers from liability lawsuits brought by customers who do not tighten wheel nuts or QRs, hence the name "lawyers' lips".

cyclop wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 1:14pm Anyone filed the tags off a deopout hanger ?Conversely,has a wheel ever become detached from a bike due to some sort of dropout failure due to a lack of them ?

There was a case - 20+ years ago - which went to court, a guy called Russ Pinder sued Fox (the manufacturers of the suspension fork he was using) claiming it was a faulty design that could lead to the front wheel ejecting. Which is exactly what happened, he was paralysed from the chest down. The case was eventually settled out of court with a confidentiality agreement. I assume Russ is still alive.

Anyway, there was a significant redesign of a lot of suspension forks and the tabs got added. Bear in mind it was the very early days of both suspension and disc brakes and manufacturers didn't fully understand the change in forces that were going through frames and forks as a result of both those things.

And no, I've never filed the tabs off a set of forks - the idea of taking a file to a significant structural part of a bike for literally no benefit whatsoever (other than "ooh look, I've saved myself half a second taking a wheel off, I'll now spend 10 minutes fixing the puncture...") is one that no-one with any sense would ever consider.

Plus thru-axles are now standard on most new bikes, so it's no longer a consideration anyway.

I routinely file them off all of my forks.
They make it necessary to readjust the QR setting every time the wheel is removed, so that, in the hands of the inept who are more likely to need them, the lips increase the chances of maladjustment.
I have found it impossible to convince my brother in law that the QR is not a sort of folding wing nut. He also has a difficulty understanding brake quick release levers!

It's only my tandem that has lawyers lips. Every other bike in my stable doesn't have them. Never lost a wheel in use.

rareposter wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 1:47pm



And no, I've never filed the tabs off a set of forks - the idea of taking a file to a significant structural part of a bike for literally no benefit whatsoever (other than "ooh look, I've saved myself half a second taking a wheel off, I'll now spend 10 minutes fixing the puncture...") is one that no-one with any sense would ever consider.

It takes more than half a second to unwind the qr and to reset it afterwards. To me it is just an annoying faff, for no gain, and it gives an occasion to get it wrong.
I would not call lawyers' lips ' a significant structural part'. Maybe we are thinking of different things?

Mike Sales wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 2:19pm I would not call lawyers' lips ' a significant structural part'. Maybe we are thinking of different things?

These things:


The dropouts are cast in one piece; removing bits of them by grinding away at them is a structural issue.
There are several different versions anyway, I've seen dropouts with a full recess for the QR and I've seen them like that with just a tab sticking out. Can safely say that in all my years as a bike mechanic, "resetting a QR" has been the least of the issues I've seen!

I've had a couple of frames in the past that were full carbon including the dropouts - certainly not getting a file to that!

rareposter wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 2:41pm

Mike Sales wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 2:19pm I would not call lawyers' lips ' a significant structural part'. Maybe we are thinking of different things?

These things:


The dropouts are cast in one piece; removing bits of them by grinding away at them is a structural issue.
There are several different versions anyway, I've seen dropouts with a full recess for the QR and I've seen them like that with just a tab sticking out. Can safely say that in all my years as a bike mechanic, "resetting a QR" has been the least of the issues I've seen!

I've had a couple of frames in the past that were full carbon including the dropouts - certainly not getting a file to that!

You mention a couple of fairly rare exceptions to the average lawyers' lips equipped drop outs. In my experience carbon forks have metal ends. Certainly the dropouts I have filed are not what you have pictured. What is your attitude to removing the common type of lips?
I really do not think a little tag on the end contributes anything to the structure.
I am sure that an experienced mechanic like you will reset the qr properly, but are not the lips supposed
to save the inept from themselves?
I think that lawyers' lips is an accurate name; they are designed to save payouts.

Looking more closely at your picture I see that those are exactly what most of us mean by 'lawyers' lips'. It is a very long stretch to imagine removing them could be a structural problem.
Many items are cast in one piece and then fettled or cleaned up with a file. This does not make any difference to their integrity.

There are several different versions

I think this is the point. Frames BITD - secondhand or built to my spec - from local lightweight builders - Bob J,; Woodrupps; Chris Marshall; EB etc didn't have them and I presume that's still the case.

I've had two Cannondales "off the peg." Neither bought recently. The first had small "pips" on the tips of the front fork ends which I filed off in seconds. The second had deep recesses in the front fork ends, rendering the q/r useless: might just as well have had wing nuts. And not amenable to DIY removal

rareposter wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 1:47pm
And no, I've never filed the tabs off a set of forks - the idea of taking a file to a significant structural part of a bike for literally no benefit whatsoever (other than "ooh look, I've saved myself half a second taking a wheel off, I'll now spend 10 minutes fixing the puncture...") is one that no-one with any sense would ever consider.

I consider myself as blessed with a lot of common sense and I grind off the tabs from every fork I own.
No moron American should force me to something I do not like.

BTW, I'm 71 now and NEVER in my 55 year cycling career a front wheel came out due to unsufficient holding of the quick release.

I've had two forks built by Argos and no, they do not put lawyer lips on them. I think there is a safe assumption that someone beating a path to their door and paying over £300 for a custom fork is probably clued-up enough about bikes to understand a QR skewer.

I file them off most forks but not the carbon ones. Having said that, tubeless tyres (cue another can of worms opening) means that I only take the wheels out in the shed.

mattsccm wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 6:14pm I file them off most forks but not the carbon ones. Having said that, tubeless tyres (cue another can of worms opening) means that I only take the wheels out in the shed.

Am I missing something?(Entirely possible)Why only in the shed?What happens 50mls from home?Interesting differences of opinion re "lawyers lips".Annoying to be sure but haven,t removed any,more thru sheer idleness.May do so on a wet day .

I’ve filed the lips off the forks of every rim braked bike I’ve owned since they first started putting them on. To me, on that sort of bike, they only serve to avoid a user error that I like to think I wouldn’t make, having grown up before their invention. I don’t file them off other peoples’ bikes that I might be fettling, unless they ask me to, and I never file them off a disk braked bike.

Never heard them called ‘dropout hangers’. That I would associate with where you attach a rear mech.

TheBomber wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 6:44pm I’ve filed the lips off the forks of every rim braked bike I’ve owned since they first started putting them on. To me, on that sort of bike, they only serve to avoid a user error that I like to think I wouldn’t make, having grown up before their invention. I don’t file them off other peoples’ bikes that I might be fettling, unless they ask me to, and I never file them off a disk braked bike.

Never heard them called ‘dropout hangers’. That I would associate with where you attach a rear mech.

You,re quite correct,my mistake.My skill at "naming the parts" has declined since a stroke 18mnths ago .No excuse really,idleness plays a part.