Stuff the Tour of Britain

[Valbrona]

So if I am correct ...

We had the situation where a private company (Sweet Spot) paid British Cycling large sums of money for the rights/licence to a third rate bike race. No wonder the company has - I believe - entered liquidation.

Now we might get the more realistic situation where British Cycling has to pay a private company large sums of money to organize the ToB.

Really, we need a private individual/company to come up with a rival pro race (Tour of the Kingdom?) to end this farce.

[rareposter]

So if I am correct ...

You're not but don't let that stop you...

We had the situation where a private company (Sweet Spot) paid British Cycling large sums of money for the rights/licence to a third rate bike race. No wonder the company has - I believe - entered liquidation.

Sweetspot is a professional events management company, they've organised the Tour of Britain since it made its comeback after the Milk Race days and the Women's Tour since the start, they've done the Tour Series and they also organised the road race events within the World Cycling Championships in Glasgow.
And go on - why is the Tour of Britain "third rate"? Bradley Wiggins, Mathieu van der Poel, Julian Alaphilippe and Wout van Aert have all won it, Mark Cavendish has won stages in it. Tour de France winners like Geraint Thomas have ridden it.
Are these riders not world class enough for you? More recently it's had full live daily coverage on free-to air TV, that sounds a bit third rate as well doesn't it...

Now we might get the more realistic situation where British Cycling has to pay a private company large sums of money to organize the ToB.

Ah yes from that well known long list of multi-million pound companies willing, able and just waiting to organise WorldTour racing....

Really, we need a private individual/company to come up with a rival pro race (Tour of the Kingdom?) to end this farce.

There was one, it was called Sweetspot. However, as with all cycle racing they rely very heavily on sponsors and no-one is currently stepping up to give millions of pounds to cycle sport in the UK. Brexit has made it incredibly difficult, costly and time-consuming for pro-teams to get over here with all their kit, police costs are rising dramatically, the roads are in a shocking state of (dis)repair... Councils can't afford to host start/finish venues because they're all skint and it doesn't look great politically if you give a bike race £250,000 to come and close your town centre for a day when you can't afford to keep libraries or leisure centres open...

The death of the Queen in 2022 meant the last 3 stages of that race were cancelled due to the need for all the police outriders to be back in London so that put a major downer on everything. 2023 reverted to a more tried and tested route in an attempt to reset everything a bit.

Also why would BC and the UCI grant a "rival pro race" a licence....? You do know that Sweespot had a professional contract with both organisations, yes? And that there's actually a formal process to go through to get races registered on the UCI calendar...?

[pjclinch]

We had the situation where a private company (Sweet Spot) paid British Cycling large sums of money for the rights/licence to a third rate bike race.

As with rareposter, I question your description of Sweet Spots tour events as "third rate", and looking at what riders themselves thought about it I suspect a lot of them would too. The Women's Tour particularly was very well received by its participants as a race that actually took things like accommodation and food for the riders seriously.

[mjr]

We had the situation where a private company (Sweet Spot) paid British Cycling large sums of money for the rights/licence to a third rate bike race.

As with rareposter, I question your description of Sweet Spots tour events as "third rate", and looking at what riders themselves thought about it I suspect a lot of them would too. The Women's Tour particularly was very well received by its participants as a race that actually took things like accommodation and food for the riders seriously.

How many of their events have you been to? How many others? Been to any ASO, RCS or Flanders Classics ones? If we can agree that ASO and the biggest one-day races are first-rate, then most of the rest of the WT calendar is first- or second-rate, which leads inevitably to the conclusion that the Sweet Spot continental-circuit men's races were third-rate and the domestic crit series arguably fourth-rate, but maybe elevated back to third-rate by the pretty good TV coverage.

The Women's Tour, despite its awful name, could have seemed relatively good even if it was third-rate, because most of the UCIWWT events when it started were fourth-rate!

[pjclinch]

We had the situation where a private company (Sweet Spot) paid British Cycling large sums of money for the rights/licence to a third rate bike race.

As with rareposter, I question your description of Sweet Spots tour events as "third rate", and looking at what riders themselves thought about it I suspect a lot of them would too. The Women's Tour particularly was very well received by its participants as a race that actually took things like accommodation and food for the riders seriously.

How many of their events have you been to? How many others? Been to any ASO, RCS or Flanders Classics ones? If we can agree that ASO and the biggest one-day races are first-rate, then most of the rest of the WT calendar is first- or second-rate, which leads inevitably to the conclusion that the Sweet Spot continental-circuit men's races were third-rate and the domestic crit series arguably fourth-rate, but maybe elevated back to third-rate by the pretty good TV coverage.

The Women's Tour, despite its awful name, could have seemed relatively good even if it was third-rate, because most of the UCIWWT events when it started were fourth-rate!

While on the one hand this is fair comment in absolute terms, if we take the original tone rather than the specific quantification then we have the question, "were Sweet Spot's events as good as could reasonably be expected in their particular contexts?". The tone of the initial email suggests no, but I'm convinced that's fair.

Pete.

[mjr]

While on the one hand this is fair comment in absolute terms, if we take the original tone rather than the specific quantification then we have the question, "were Sweet Spot's events as good as could reasonably be expected in their particular contexts?". The tone of the initial email suggests no, but I'm convinced that's fair.

You're convinced that's fair, but wanted to question it anyway?

Apparently I missed Sweetspot going into liquidation a few weeks ago, as reported at https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... iquidation — it seems that British Cycling demanded the full licensing fee for the truncated 2022 edition and that combined with still carrying the costs of two raceless Covid years to take them under.

British Cycling claim to have a plan for the World Tour / Women's World Tour races to announce any time now, but the races were booted off the 2024 calendars last week, so I think they'll have to requalify for 2025 at soonest. If they regain their slots for this year, I think a lot of other race organisers will object.

So, at the moment, it looks like the only World-class race in 2024 in the UK is the RideLondon Classique 24-26 May, doesn't it?

[pjclinch]

While on the one hand this is fair comment in absolute terms, if we take the original tone rather than the specific quantification then we have the question, "were Sweet Spot's events as good as could reasonably be expected in their particular contexts?". The tone of the initial email suggests no, but I'm convinced that's fair.

You're convinced that's fair, but wanted to question it anyway?

I'm saying it depends how you look at it whether it's fair or not.

[rareposter]

So, at the moment, it looks like the only World-class race in 2024 in the UK is the RideLondon Classique 24-26 May, doesn't it?

Rutland-Melton CiCLE Classic on 28th April is a UCI 1.2 event. Pitched as the UK equivalent of a Belgian Classic - it's a really good race to watch as it loops in and around the same fairly compact bit of countryside so plenty of chances to see the riders.

https://cicleclassic.co.uk/

[mjr]

So, at the moment, it looks like the only World-class race in 2024 in the UK is the RideLondon Classique 24-26 May, doesn't it?

Rutland-Melton CiCLE Classic on 28th April is a UCI 1.2 event.

The leading 1 means it's a one-day race (it would be 2 for a stage race). World-class would be UCI 1.UWT or 1.WWT. The next step down is 1.Pro, then 1.1, so a 1.2 is three steps below world-class and it's the lowest UCI rank. See https://thebritishcontinental.co.uk/202 ... fications/

Pitched as the UK equivalent of a Belgian Classic - it's a really good race to watch as it loops in and around the same fairly compact bit of countryside so plenty of chances to see the riders.

I'm sure it's a good race, but it's currently well below a Belgian Classic and a long way from World class.

I wonder if the people running British Cycling have a similar overoptimistic view of UK races and that's why they were happy to sink Sweetspot, just blithely assuming that the two Tours would regain their position whenever British Cycling announced them. The Wincanton Classic or the PruTour all over again?

[rareposter]

The leading 1 means it's a one-day race (it would be 2 for a stage race). World-class would be UCI 1.UWT or 1.WWT. The next step down is 1.Pro, then 1.1, so a 1.2 is three steps below world-class and it's the lowest UCI rank. See https://thebritishcontinental.co.uk/202 ... fications/

Yes I know the classifications - I was more using any "UCI" race as a distinguishing factor from even the best domestic races.

The Beaumont Trophy ran for a few years as a UCI 1.2 as well, more as a ploy to get some bigger name riders involved (this was in the early days of Team Sky) but the additional costs were too much and it reverted back to being a National Series event.

[TrevA]

From what I’ve heard ( my friend’s daughter works for British Cycling), Sweetspot’s problems stem from the cancelled stages of the 2022 Tour of Britain. The Isle of Wight in particular, have demanded the money back that they put up for the final stage which did not take place. The race is mostly funded by local councils putting up the money for the race to pass through their county/area.

The Tour of Britain organisers have to pay for the policing of the event, and I would imagine all those Police in cars and on motorcycles, don’t come cheap. The Tour de France and other continental races don’t have to pay policing costs. When the TDF comes to Britain, they bring their own French Police with them.

[mattsccm]

Missing the point some what of course but how the devil can either of those two British races be called a "classic"? Bit like the efforts to call the Strada Bianca a monument.

[mjr]

Missing the point some what of course but how the devil can either of those two British races be called a "classic"? Bit like the efforts to call the Strada Bianca a monument.

Ride London is an Olympics legacy event, so is prestigious from that. It's only four years younger than Strade Bianchi.

Rutland Melton I think is viewed as a replacement on the calendar for the Wincanton classic.

[TrevA]

The Rutland Classic is a race in its own right, it’s not a replacement for anything. It’s been going for over 20 years now. Started off as just a UK race, and was part of the Premier Calendar, but I think Colin Clews, the organiser, didn’t really see the benefit of being part of the series, so decided to list it as a stand alone UCI race and invite a few Continental teams along. It’s highly regarded amongst riders and a good race for spectators to watch as it criss-crosses the countryside between Oakham and Leicester. There are now women’s and junior versions of the race. It’s the British equivalent of Paris-Roubaix or Strada Bianchi, albeit on a much smaller scale.

My son has ridden the Senior men’s race several times and got in the race winning break a couple of times, beating Magnus Backstedt in the sprint on one occasion.

[TrevA]

Missing the point some what of course but how the devil can either of those two British races be called a "classic"? Bit like the efforts to call the Strada Bianca a monument.

Any race can be called a Classic. There used to be a race called the Clayton Velo Spring Classic, possibly still is. The rebooted Perfs Pedal Race is now called the Portsdown Classic. There’s a March Hare Classic at Eastway. There used to be rules about calling your race a Grand Prix (minimum prize list), but there are no such rules about calling your race a Classic.