'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

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slowster
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by slowster »

Brianjeff50 wrote: 21 Feb 2024, 9:45am Maybe I'll pop my old BR-R650s back on just to try them out and compare.
I have not tried it mysef, but see the last paragraph in the comment below regarding set-up. This was posted shortly after NSSLR was introduced, and I've not seen others since then advising this, but it may be worth trying.
From a bike shop:
"we just had a bike in for a service today that had one 5600 lever paired with a 5700 brake. It was the first time I'd got to try this combination, and I immediately found out that the braking sucked on the test ride ... I was surprised by how pathetic and mushy it felt."
"So stick with components of the same series unless you have no choice."
"BTW, going the other way (e.g. new 6700 levers with old 6600 brakes) can be made to work OK - just setup the brake so that it doesn't hit the rim until the lever has moved a little more than normal, but still far from the bars, and you get reasonably decent power and modulation. The cable pull ratio actually changes during the lever sweep with the new levers, which I believe Shimano call Servo Wave technology, which is why it matters where the bite point of the brake is."
https://www.celebrazio.net/bicycling/sh ... ility.html
roubaixtuesday
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Brianjeff50 wrote: 21 Feb 2024, 9:45am
Brucey wrote: 20 Feb 2024, 10:01am
Brianjeff50 wrote: 20 Feb 2024, 9:05am..... Maybe it’s my imagination but the Tektros don’t seem to work as well. FWIW I also have pretty small hands so even with the levers adjusted, braking is a stretch. Another attraction of discs.....
from memory tektro R539 calipers are 'old pull' (low MA) and 5800 brake levers are NSSLR type (also low MA). If so, that would explain your poor brakes. I think maybe you should have higher MA calipers paired with those levers and it isn't just your imagination.
I've looked through the Shimano compatibility charts and they say - if I've read them properly - that the only long drop brakes compatible with 5800 levers are BR-R650 with 'braking power slightly less than standard combination'.
And these are too tight to allow the wheel with inflated tyres to pass through.
At some point Tektro R539 apparently claimed compatibility but this seemingly vanished from their spec sheets.
Maybe I'll pop my old BR-R650s back on just to try them out and compare.
Is the concern with getting an inflated tyre through for fixing punctures on the road? If yes, maybe worth getting a minipump with a hose, which can be very good anyway.
Brucey
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by Brucey »

IIRC Tektro do make a brake caliper that is med/long drop and NSSLR compatible and presumably opens enough, but I can't recall the model number exactly and the last time I looked at Tektro's website, they had revised the description of that brake, meaning there may not be any useful clues any more.
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slowster
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by slowster »

Brucey wrote: 21 Feb 2024, 2:10pm IIRC Tektro do make a brake caliper that is med/long drop and NSSLR compatible and presumably opens enough, but I can't recall the model number exactly and the last time I looked at Tektro's website, they had revised the description of that brake, meaning there may not be any useful clues any more.
I am pretty sure it's the RG957. Spa state it is 'compatible with 2.5 ratio levers for frames designed to accept larger tyres' and specify it as standard on their titanium Audax bike.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m7b0s100p36 ... %28pair%29

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s223p32 ... spd-Double

They specify the R737 on the less expensive steel Audax bike, but next to it state '(Upgrade options available)', which suggests to me that it has the same MA/ratio as all the other medium drop brakes, and that the recommended upgrade is indeed the RG957.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m7b0s100p51 ... %28pair%29

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s223p32 ... spd-Double
Brucey
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by Brucey »

that makes sense to me, anyway.

However I do suspect that tektro r737 calipers do have a higher MA than the r539 model.
Last edited by Brucey on 21 Feb 2024, 3:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AndyK
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Location: Mid Hampshire

Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by AndyK »

My Tektro R359 deep drop brakes work a treat with my ST-5700 levers and have done for over a decade. (Pretty sure 5700 is NSSLR, isn't it?) I haven't used R539's but I was under the impression they were just a slightly posher version of the R359.
Cyclothesist
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by Cyclothesist »

I have Tektro R539 brakes on my Kinesis GF Ti V2 paired with ST5700 brifters and they work very well together stopping as well as my Spyre disk braked bike in the dry.
If using that combination your braking is poor I'd be looking at the state of the cables and outers as well as the block compound.
Brianjeff50
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by Brianjeff50 »

Cyclothesist wrote: 21 Feb 2024, 3:52pm I have Tektro R539 brakes on my Kinesis GF Ti V2 paired with ST5700 brifters and they work very well together stopping as well as my Spyre disk braked bike in the dry.
If using that combination your braking is poor I'd be looking at the state of the cables and outers as well as the block compound.
Time for a check up of the whole system I think. As a matter of interest what brake blocks do you use?
AndyK
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by AndyK »

Cyclothesist wrote: 21 Feb 2024, 3:52pm I have Tektro R539 brakes on my Kinesis GF Ti V2 paired with ST5700 brifters and they work very well together stopping as well as my Spyre disk braked bike in the dry.
If using that combination your braking is poor I'd be looking at the state of the cables and outers as well as the block compound.
Good point. I generally use either Scott-Mathauser Salmon pads (excellent), Elvedes white (possibly even better, but fast-wearing) or Fibrax dual-compound (not quite as good, but fine)
Glen
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by Glen »

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323846025801 ... p_homepage
Going back to the original question - here's how! These bikinGreen chainrings were mentioned on the 'Are there any modern cranksets that aren't goppingly awful?' thread. Quite a neat idea..
Brucey
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by Brucey »

Glen wrote: 22 Feb 2024, 2:40pm https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323846025801 ... p_homepage
Going back to the original question - here's how! These bikinGreen chainrings were mentioned on the 'Are there any modern cranksets that aren't goppingly awful?' thread. Quite a neat idea..
it is nice idea, arguably a halfway house to a full tripleiser setup, with a chainline that is slightly better.
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Cyclothesist
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Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?

Post by Cyclothesist »

Brianjeff50 wrote: 22 Feb 2024, 11:15am
Cyclothesist wrote: 21 Feb 2024, 3:52pm I have Tektro R539 brakes on my Kinesis GF Ti V2 paired with ST5700 brifters and they work very well together stopping as well as my Spyre disk braked bike in the dry.
If using that combination your braking is poor I'd be looking at the state of the cables and outers as well as the block compound.
Time for a check up of the whole system I think. As a matter of interest what brake blocks do you use?
In fact I'm still using stock Tektro pads and while I'll change them for something better once they wear out, IME there's no need to bring that forward. I do inspect clean and lube the brake cables and outers a couple of times a year, more if there's been a lot of getting caught in the rain. The brakes are working on Shimano wh6800 aluminium rims. I find the state of the cables and outers can make the difference between good and lousy braking. When I installed the 5700 brifters in place of the original 4600s I replaced the cables and outers and made sure to follow Sheldon's advice on routing and length, filing the cut outer ends flat, opening the central channel and use of ferrules. The shop installed cables had just been cut and not necessarily square. That can lose braking power compressing the suboptimal cable end in the ferrule.
https://sheldonbrown.com/cable-installation.html
He really knew his stuff did Sheldon.
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