Page 1 of 3
'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 16 Feb 2024, 11:22am
by Brianjeff50
My 50/34 chainrings are looking like worn out stumps these days. They need to be changed. But as I'm getting a bit old and worn out myself it would be great to make my climbing life easier at the same time with something like 44/28 to go with my 11-32 cassette. Is this even possible with an old tech Shimano 5800? I'm loathe to spend silly money as the Kinesis is getting on towards ten years old itself.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 16 Feb 2024, 11:41am
by rareposter
Brianjeff50 wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024, 11:22am
My 50/34 chainrings are looking like worn out stumps these days. They need to be changed. But as I'm getting a bit old and worn out myself it would be great to make my climbing life easier at the same time with something like 44/28 to go with my 11-32 cassette. Is this even possible with an old tech Shimano 5800? I'm loathe to spend silly money as the Kinesis is getting on towards ten years old itself.
You won't get a 28T ring on a 105 chainset of any sort.
It'll be cheaper and easier to buy a whole new chainset. Spa do some super compact chainsets with the ring combinations you mention:
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s109p33 ... cral-Rings
Bear in mind you'll need a new BB and (possibly) a new front mech as well but (as you need new chainrings anyway) I suspect that'll be the cheapest quick win for getting lower gears. You can of course go for a larger rear cassette too if required. You state the rings are very worn which potentially means you'll need a new cassette anyway if that's the same age, it'll all have worn together.
Officially, the 5800 was for "up to" a max 32T on the cassette but Shimano are usually very conservative with that and you can almost certainly get a 34T, maybe even a 36T cassette in there.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 16 Feb 2024, 11:49am
by roubaixtuesday
rareposter wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024, 11:41am
Brianjeff50 wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024, 11:22am
My 50/34 chainrings are looking like worn out stumps these days. They need to be changed. But as I'm getting a bit old and worn out myself it would be great to make my climbing life easier at the same time with something like 44/28 to go with my 11-32 cassette. Is this even possible with an old tech Shimano 5800? I'm loathe to spend silly money as the Kinesis is getting on towards ten years old itself.
You won't get a 28T ring on a 105 chainset of any sort.
It'll be cheaper and easier to buy a whole new chainset. Spa do some super compact chainsets with the ring combinations you mention:
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s109p33 ... cral-Rings
Bear in mind you'll need a new BB and (possibly) a new front mech as well but (as you need new chainrings anyway) I suspect that'll be the cheapest quick win for getting lower gears. You can of course go for a larger rear cassette too if required. You state the rings are very worn which potentially means you'll need a new cassette anyway if that's the same age, it'll all have worn together.
Officially, the 5800 was for "up to" a max 32T on the cassette but Shimano are usually very conservative with that and you can almost certainly get a 34T, maybe even a 36T cassette in there.
You can buy a whole sub compact chainset
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s109p33 ... cral-Rings
For the price of a single 5800 outer ring
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainrings/ ... black-52t/
And bottom brackets are cheap too.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 16 Feb 2024, 5:28pm
by TrevA
You could buy a Shimano GRX 46/30 chainset, but you would probably need a new front mech too, as the GRX sits further out than a road chainset, so you are looking at about £140. Better off with the Spa chainset and a square taper bottom bracket, which should work with you existing set up.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 7:47am
by Brianjeff50
Sounds like the Spa set-up is the best option. I guess now I just have to decide whether it’s worth spending out on chainset, bottom bracket, cassette and chain or letting the old beast soldier on for a while and put my pocket money towards a newer bike instead.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 8:33am
by mattsccm
You may not need any of the extras. I find that virtually all mechs will cope happily with smaller rings with no loss of efficiency. The BB width may well be close enough not to matter. You can check this by comparing BB widths needed with what you have and a potential new chainset.
The chain may not sit happily on a new chain ring but bear in mind it is steel and the chain rings alloy so depending on your other part (chain and cassette) replacement policy this may be fine.
Just saying.......
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 9:15am
by rareposter
mattsccm wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 8:33am
The BB width may well be close enough not to matter. You can check this by comparing BB widths needed with what you have and a potential new chainset.
The 5800 BB is external cups, axle mounted into the chainset.
The Spa chainset that I and roubaixtuesday linked to needs a square taper.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 10:56am
by cycleruk
Will an 11 speed chain work happily with a Spa chainset ?
Are there any other chainsets, such as Sram, that will give lower gears ?
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 11:21am
by peterh11
Plus one for the Spa chainsets. I have two triples both with Tiagra (4700) front derailleurs and 24/34/46 rings - works as well as the original 30/39/50 chainset. Also you can select a bottom bracket length to match your current alignment. Spa put recommendations on their web site and you can call them to ask. People on this forum can assist with this as well - a lot of us have these chainsets.
A new TD-2 super compact chainset with custom rings and bottom bracket will set you back about £100. You may need to compromise a little on pedal separation (stance width / Q factor) but only a few mm.
PeterH
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 11:43am
by slowster
Brianjeff50 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 7:47am
I just have to decide whether it’s worth spending out on chainset, bottom bracket, cassette and chain or letting the old beast soldier on for a while and put my pocket money towards a newer bike instead.
If your tyres were worn out, I doubt you would decide that it was better not to replace them and to get a new bike instead. The chainrings, chain and cassette are likewise consumables. Even if you decide to get a new bike, it would make sense to replace the worn parts, either to have it as a spare bike or probably even if you intend to sell it.
As has already been pointed out, replacement 5800 series chainrings would cost as much as a Spa Super Compact chainset, so you may as well get that and have exactly the gears you want (the chainsets are available with various chainring options from 46/30 down to 40/24).
If you get a new bike, most off the shelf options would be limited to no lower than 46/30. That may or may not suit you, even with a wider range cassette. You can use your current bike to determine in advance whether the standard gearing provided by 46/30 GRX type drivetrains would suit you, or whether you would need something different, such as 44/28 or 42/26. That in turn might be a major factor in your choice of a new bike.
cycleruk wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 10:56am
Will an 11 speed chain work happily with a Spa chainset ?
It will according to Spa.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 12:13pm
by Brucey
I would probably get one of these
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s149p11 ... -Chainring
-respacing the BB if required. If desired,you can use the inner rings as a double, using the outer ring position for a chainguard, which is not difficult to make eg. by taking the teeth off an old chainring.
(edit; which would be fine if FC-5800 were a 110x5 chainset but it isn't, it is a 110x4 chainset and the ring above won't fit, d'oh!)
btw even if you have to get new BB cups (mtn cups may give you more room for manouvre), it will be neither expensive nor difficult to do.
cheers
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 12:52pm
by JohnR
slowster wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 11:43am
cycleruk wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 10:56am
Will an 11 speed chain work happily with a Spa chainset ?
It will according to Spa.
And works fine for me.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 2:33pm
by Brianjeff50
slowster wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 11:43am
Brianjeff50 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 7:47am
I just have to decide whether it’s worth spending out on chainset, bottom bracket, cassette and chain or letting the old beast soldier on for a while and put my pocket money towards a newer bike instead.
If your tyres were worn out, I doubt you would decide that it was better not to replace them and to get a new bike instead. The chainrings, chain and cassette are likewise consumables. Even if you decide to get a new bike, it would make sense to replace the worn parts, either to have it as a spare bike or probably even if you intend to sell it.
As has already been pointed out, replacement 5800 series chainrings would cost as much as a Spa Super Compact chainset, so you may as well get that and have exactly the gears you want (the chainsets are available with various chainring options from 46/30 down to 40/24).
If you get a new bike, most off the shelf options would be limited to no lower than 46/30. That may or may not suit you, even with a wider range cassette. You can use your current bike to determine in advance whether the standard gearing provided by 46/30 GRX type drivetrains would suit you, or whether you would need something different, such as 44/28 or 42/26. That in turn might be a major factor in your choice of a new bike.
cycleruk wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 10:56am
Will an 11 speed chain work happily with a Spa chainset ?
It will according to Spa.
Wise words! I was probably looking for an excuse to treat myself to a new(er) bike.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 4:10pm
by pwa
I can recommend the Spa chainset route. It opens up really low gears. Either a double, or a triple with the outer ring replaced with a guard ring to make a super-compact double. My wife has the latter, and her small ring is just 24t, with 40t for the largest. I don't know if your front mech will handle that, but if it will, that really will make steep climbs easier. I also think the silver Spa cranks have a classic polished look that beats even high end painted Shimano for looks.
Re: 'Easier' chainrings for Shimano 5800 - how?
Posted: 17 Feb 2024, 5:24pm
by slowster
Brianjeff50 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 2:33pm
I was probably looking for an excuse to treat myself to a new(er) bike.
Far be it from me to stop anyone from getting a newer bike. I would suggest using your Kinesis as a test bed for new gearing. If, once fitted, you found that a Super Compact chainset and new cassette gave you just what you wanted, you could still get a newer bike. The difference would be that you would not waste money buying a bike with gears that you knew in advance were wrong for you.
One option might be not to buy a newer bike, but to buy a new frame and transplant everything from the Kinesis. If you can put most of your budget towards the frame rather than a complete bike, you might end up with a much nicer bike for your money.