touring wheels upgrade

[bitoffluff]

Touring wheels tend to be designed to cope with hauling weight and presumably stiff enough to deal with standing on the pedals cycling under load. But there is whole load of a robustness jump from these features to lightweight road wheels in terms of described intended use. Robustness and stiffness (alloy, forget carbon for the mo) tend to mean heavier. So question is for someone that weighs 50kg and lightweight tours with maybe 20kg (so added up weighs less than many average men), do I really need to take the weight penalty of a robust touring wheel, or can I ignore the road wheel descriptions, and use these for my sort of touring with my kind of weight. Or am I missng something in this deduction?

[ChrisF]

I'm 60kg and often tour with 10-15kg luggage. I have toured on many different bikes, with many different types of wheels, some of them very lightweight (though not carbon). Apart from the occasonal puncture in the last 10 years I have only twice had a 'wheel' problem:
- once on a hire bike (a quite heavy 'touring' one) in Majorca - a broken spoke which then got tangled in the derailler (that was messy and I had to call the hire shop for a rescue);
- once on my 35-year-old Gawes Super Galaxy; a broken spoke in Holland.(The wheels weren't 35 years old but had been replaced with something similar to the original). The wheel still worked OK until I got to a bike shop who replaced the spoke in 5 minutes.

[simonhill]

Weight is only half the equation. What sort of touring will you be doing.

My wheels are probably over the top for the majority of my touring nowadays on super smooth Asian roads, BUT when I hit 100 Kms of ripped up tarmac thanks to road rebuilding, I'm thankful for something I know will stand the treatment.

I normally have 36 spokes on 26" rims so tough but for quite a while I happily rode on 32s. Not that that's much of a saving. I did have some lighter rims, but they showed cracks around the spoke holes.

Happy now to be bomb proof - and slow.

[rareposter]

Wheels are a lot stronger than most people think or give them credit for.

That said, a lot depends on the rim width and depth, the bike that it's on, terrain and load (as well as where/how that load is distributed around the bike), if it's rim or disc brakes, tyre size and pressure and to a certain extent spoke lacing / number of spokes....

For a relatively lightweight load that you're talking about (assuming it's on a road-based bike, not off-road touring), pretty much any regular road hub and rim, with normal 3x lacing should be more than up to the task.

[mattsccm]

My feelings are that, as long as they are not cheap rubbish and are well built, the supposed toughness of wheels is over stressed. Have a look at the more expensive "gravel" wheels . Tough enough for off road use and light as well. Look at CX wheels or at least those not built for tubs. You don't see many breaking. The same 20 to 40 wheels seen every week on my club even gravel rides get one hell of a battering but never does one break.
Some are better quality than others .

[pwa]

Touring wheels tend to be designed to cope with hauling weight and presumably stiff enough to deal with standing on the pedals cycling under load. But there is whole load of a robustness jump from these features to lightweight road wheels in terms of described intended use. Robustness and stiffness (alloy, forget carbon for the mo) tend to mean heavier. So question is for someone that weighs 50kg and lightweight tours with maybe 20kg (so added up weighs less than many average men), do I really need to take the weight penalty of a robust touring wheel, or can I ignore the road wheel descriptions, and use these for my sort of touring with my kind of weight. Or am I missng something in this deduction?

With those weights, I think you are right to think that the most heavy-duty wheels will be unnecessary. So instead of 36 spokes all round, maybe 32 would be right, and you could look at lighter spokes on the front. And instead of the heaviest wheel rims, something a bit lighter will do nicely. Hubs will probably be the same and for reliability, I'd still go for brass spoke nipples rather than aluminium alloy. So yes, you can save a bit of weight without a worry. I weigh over 90kg and I don't use the heaviest rims. I haven't broken a spoke or damaged a touring rim in decades. I have used Exal LX 17 in preference to Ryde Sputnik, saving about 100g per wheel, though with my rim brakes that will mean changing rims more often.

But for touring, where you want reliability, the one thing I wouldn't compromise on is the build. I would insist on wheels hand built by an outfit I trust to do it thoroughly. I get mine from Spa Cycles, but there are others out there doing the same sort of thing. I would not trust "factory" wheels that come wiith no assurance regarding the care with which they are put together. This matters as much as the elements the wheels are made from.

[PT1029]

I (~70kg + luggage) have camped on 32 spoke wheels/28c tyres. The tyres need care on rough surfaces, but never had a problem with the wheels..
These days you will find more choice of components in 32 hole than 36 hole, so 32 may be a good choice in that regard.
The key is how well the wheel has been built (spokes laced/tensioned). So Spa or a good local bike shop (that knows touring rather than just racing/road) is a good choice.
It is always worth carrying a few spare spokes (and spoke nipples) even if you don't know how to fit them. Without spares you may find someone able to, but they might not have the correct length (to within 2mm) spokes.
Good wheels shouldn't break spokes, but there is always the chance of the errant stick or dislodged pannier that may cause damage.
Many years ago on a round the world trip, my friend's rear pannier swung into the rear wheel, one broken spoke. He was more upset because it meant he had lost a £5 bet to get round the world without breaking a spoke. On inspection, he was overjoyed to find the spoke nipple had broken, the spoke itself was intact. He won his £5 bet.

[ANTONISH]

As has been said upthread wheels are pretty strong - in racing they are subjected to great stress possibly more than would be experienced with loaded touring.
In my younger days I toured with sprints and tubular tyres - I experienced few problems although fixing a puncture took longer and needed more skill.

If a wheel is properly built it should cope with most conditions.

[pwa]

I have long subscribed to the theory that, if you wish to keep wheel weight down, it is better to have a slightly larger number of lighter pokes than a lower number of heavier spokes, as the former distributes the strength more evenly. So, for example, 32 lightweight pokes per wheel rather than 28 heavier spokes. But some lighter spokes can be a bit of a chore to tension. It all gets a bit complicated, so speak to a good wheel builder.

One thing I would avoid is wheel rims so light that they dent easily. I once dinked both rims on a pair of Mavic Open Pros by running my tyres a bit too soft and hitting a road irregularity.

[bitoffluff]

Thanks everyone that has commented - does seem like Im generally unlikely to break anything. Other thing is do the lighter wheels flex if you pedal standing for punchy climbs? It was a bit worrying when my really cheap replacement wheels on old bike flexed, but nothing ever broke, so good to get feedback. Now got gravel bike but the original wheels it came with are really really heavy, so good to know I may be able to save maybe 400g with a wheel upgrade without too much compromise.

Been on 32 spoke rim brakes middle of the road road wheels with 32c tyres and light camping kit with no breaks ever over many thousands of miles, and that includes quite a few miles gravel / tow path. I was a bit disappointed going into bike shops I just get a lot of scepticism and directed to 36 spoke and bombproof rims however times I said what I actually wanted to do with them.

[pwa]

Thanks everyone that has commented - does seem like Im generally unlikely to break anything. Other thing is do the lighter wheels flex if you pedal standing for punchy climbs? It was a bit worrying when my really cheap replacement wheels on old bike flexed, but nothing ever broke, so good to get feedback. Now got gravel bike but the original wheels it came with are really really heavy, so good to know I may be able to save maybe 400g with a wheel upgrade without too much compromise.

Been on 32 spoke rim brakes middle of the road road wheels with 32c tyres and light camping kit with no breaks ever over many thousands of miles, and that includes quite a few miles gravel / tow path. I was a bit disappointed going into bike shops I just get a lot of scepticism and directed to 36 spoke and bombproof rims however times I said what I actually wanted to do with them.

Talk to Spa Cycles. They are used to people wanting in-between stuff. And of course, the most important weight on any wheel is the tyre. There is little point having light wheels if the tyres are heavy, so you will want lightish rubber as well. My wife has toured with tyres like these: https://road.cc/content/review/panarace ... tlc-292361 Like a fast road tyre but tougher. And they give a supple ride.

[PH]

Lots of people go camping with audax type bikes and wheelsets, so I'd expect that weight and load to be fine on most well surfaced tours.
However, if your road wheels are suitable for touring, that's likely to mean they're heavier than you need as road wheels

[531colin]

Duplicate thread on “technical” board; can someone please combine?

[simonhill]

I'm guessing you are on 700s, so plenty of choice. Although none actually recommended yet. ???

Not wishing to hijack the thread, but in a similar vein.

I'm thinking of a set of lightweight wheels and tyres for my spare* 26" Surly LHT (keep the Sputniks just in case). I'll be looking in the Spring, but suspect I'll have far less choice.

* Inherited this, full XT, but would like to lighten it for day use. My battle hardened 'blue' Surly is my touring bike.

[Jon in Sweden]

I would say the more the rider's combined body and luggage weight increases, the more care that needs to be taken as regards wheel choice.

I'm 102kg, and ride road, gravel and commuting bikes. My commuters are fairly basic with robust wheels and I don't have too many issues with those.

Spokes can be a real bother with the gravel and road bikes though. I'm 22 months back in the saddle, and I'd say I've snapped spokes on maybe 15 occasions now? Heavy riders can put out a bit more power and that combined with heavy weight (and doubly so if luggage is involved) means wheel issues.

I'd recommend erring on the side of caution and going as strong as possible. If wheel issues can be avoided, then touring is going to be more enjoyable.