Conspiracy Theories

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Biospace
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Biospace »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 2:13pm Your original post, which was moderated and therefore I can't check/quote here, made claims about the recent large scale vaccines that could be read no other way than to suggest that they weren't efficacious.

I don't think you went as far as the flerf above who denies that said virus, or other well documented viruses, ever existed - I have no words, and no time, for that level of deliberate falsehood.
It summarised the data for seasonal 'flu injections, if you're referencing Covid jabs then I made no claims whatsoever about their efficacy or safety. Is it possible you completely mis-read and mis-understood? It appears very much so to me.
pwa
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by pwa »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 10:02am
Cugel wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 9:39am I've never had covid, perhaps because I've been jabbed for it so many times now I've lost count. But maybe because I avoid contact with lots of other humans, especially the loons who refused to be jabbed. It would be interesting to know what conclusion mad-notioners draw from that. :-)
re emboldened, this is may well not be the case.

Covid vaccines produce antibodies only against the spike protein, but infection produces antibodies against both the body ("nucleocapsid") of the virus and the spikes, so you can tell if someone has been previously infected by looking for nucleocapsid antibodies.

If I recall correctly (and I can't find a reference, sorry) about 75% of people who believed they'd never been infected actually had been when this was tested.
I too have never suffered from Covid 19 symptoms, and never tested positive for it. But since I had to keep working alongside other people during the height of the pandemic, it has been my assumption that I have probably had it without symptoms. And we should remember, from a few months into the pandemic we were being informed that asymptomatic transmission was a major problem, with apparently healthy people carrying the virus without getting ill themselves. I came to the conclusion that I was probably one of those, safe from the symptoms myself, but capable of passing it to people who were more susceptible. But saying "I never caught it, so it doesn't exist" is just nuts. It's right up there with "Elvis lives" and "aliens impregnated my grannie". :lol:
Jdsk
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 10 Sep 2024, 5:55pm...
I saw some of the internet anti-vaccination content as being based on Conspiracy Theories in that they seem to get the idea that the vaccinations had nothing to do with protection (or reduction) of disease but were some Government conspiracy on some alternat agenda.
[XAP]Bob wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 2:13pm ...
Your original post, which was moderated and therefore I can't check/quote here, made claims about the recent large scale vaccines that could be read no other way than to suggest that they weren't efficacious.
...
I read the post and the subsequent thread that has now been removed. I hoped that would be the end of it.

It included the assertions that what was being administered were not vaccines and that "Our Government's psyops" had deliberately misled the population.

Jonathan
Biospace
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Biospace »

Jdsk wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 2:49pm I read the post and the subsequent thread that has now been removed. I hoped that would be the end of it.

It included the assertions that what was being administered were not vaccines and that "Our Government's psyops" had deliberately misled the population.

Jonathan
That is a false statement, a misrepresentation of what was said.

As has been detailed above I mentioned that for me, a vaccine is something which confers immunity for a very long time, after one or maybe two injections.

The reference to the Government's Behavioural Insights Team(s), more commonly known as their "psyops" or "Nudge Unit" was regarding that given they managed to convince most people they might kill Granny if they didn't follow Covid recommendations, it should be a breeze to convince those pensioners not needing the £300 winter allowance to not claim it.
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Cugel
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Cugel »

pwa wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 2:37pm But saying "I never caught it, so it doesn't exist" is just nuts. It's right up there with "Elvis lives" and "aliens impregnated my grannie". :lol:
Well ..... it may well be that certain apparent humans among us were indeed the result of granny-impregnation by aliens. How else to explain their apparently alien (to human) feelings and acts? I've often tried to unzip the disguise of one who I suspect is a green lizard underneath their human-suit but they resist my attempts, obviously because they don't want to be found out. Proof!

They may have got themselves in charge of the vaccine production facilities and this is why in, for example, the USA, everyone appears to have become a mad alien. On the other hand, several million refuse them vaccinations and they too seem to be mad aliens.

Perhaps more grannies were seduced over there - no need to vaccinate one already a mad alien, eh? I believe flying saucers are everywhere over there, especially in Texas and Oklahoma. (And maybe Idaho).

On the other hand, that Trump is obviously a Balrog so maybe it's not the aliens but the orcs who are at the grannies!

Only West Wales and perhaps parts of Yorkshire are free of the lizard aliens now. The grannies there brook no nonsense, see.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Biospace wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 3:04pm
Jdsk wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 2:49pm I read the post and the subsequent thread that has now been removed. I hoped that would be the end of it.

It included the assertions that what was being administered were not vaccines and that "Our Government's psyops" had deliberately misled the population.

Jonathan
That is a false statement, a misrepresentation of what was said.

As has been detailed above I mentioned that for me, a vaccine is something which confers immunity for a very long time, after one or maybe two injections.

The reference to the Government's Behavioural Insights Team(s), more commonly known as their "psyops" or "Nudge Unit" was regarding that given they managed to convince most people they might kill Granny if they didn't follow Covid recommendations, it should be a breeze to convince those pensioners not needing the £300 winter allowance to not claim it.
Well, we can't see what was said as it's been removed.

However, as I recall it, you first referred to Covid vaccines as "supposed vaccines" without explanation. Most people would interpret this as challenging their scientific basis.

When pressed you demurred, that of course, you actually agreed with the facts, it was merely a difference in terminology between you and the entire medical profession.

You also insinuated that the vaccinations do not reduce onward transmission, which a couple of minutes research showed to be false (and I posted to a paper demonstrating this). In other words, they might indeed kill Granny if they didn't get vaccinated, no "psyops" insinuations needed.

These, doubtless unwittingly on your part, are very similar to tactics used by conspiracy theorists.
pwa
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by pwa »

I have a little conspiracy theory of my own going on at the moment. One with more than a hint of veracity.

For the last few months BT have had vans in our village nearly every working day. Mainly to do with the installation of fibre-optic cable. I've no problem with that in itself. I will probably opt for fibre-optic myself one day. But on about four occasions in the last few months our copper-cable land line has failed in part or completely. We live in a black spot for mobile signal, so our land line is our only phone/internet connection from the house. Each time it goes we go somewhere to make a call to a call centre (lots of options to go through, usually a wait) only to then get someone telling us we will have to wait up to four working days for a fix, or we will get a partial refund thereafter. Our longest wait to get connected back to the world was about 8 days. And it is now going crackly again, meaning it is soon to fail again. We are losing about one week per month now.

My theory is that they are deliberately neglecting the copper cable stuff now to speed up our decision to upgrade to fibre-optic. We don't have a real choice because BT have the only infrastructure that connects us to the rest of the world from our home, regardless of which "provider" we sign up to. They all have to use the BT cables for land line service.
briansnail
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by briansnail »

A Jan 6 rioter glimpses the matrix. Gabriel Gatehouse follows his journey. America through the looking glass - enter a world where nothing is as it seems.

Listen to Radio 4 The coming storm - started today.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by [XAP]Bob »

pwa wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 3:51pm I have a little conspiracy theory of my own going on at the moment. One with more than a hint of veracity.

For the last few months BT have had vans in our village nearly every working day. Mainly to do with the installation of fibre-optic cable. I've no problem with that in itself. I will probably opt for fibre-optic myself one day. But on about four occasions in the last few months our copper-cable land line has failed in part or completely. We live in a black spot for mobile signal, so our land line is our only phone/internet connection from the house. Each time it goes we go somewhere to make a call to a call centre (lots of options to go through, usually a wait) only to then get someone telling us we will have to wait up to four working days for a fix, or we will get a partial refund thereafter. Our longest wait to get connected back to the world was about 8 days. And it is now going crackly again, meaning it is soon to fail again. We are losing about one week per month now.

My theory is that they are deliberately neglecting the copper cable stuff now to speed up our decision to upgrade to fibre-optic. We don't have a real choice because BT have the only infrastructure that connects us to the rest of the world from our home, regardless of which "provider" we sign up to. They all have to use the BT cables for land line service.
Are you sure its copper, not alumin(i)um? They went through a phase of using the cheapest cable available back when they only had to provide signalling up to ~8kHz, rather than the up to 1MHz that DSL uses.
The old conductor based stuff is getting turned off at some point - potentially relatively soon. I couldn't get a landline connected to a house in January, despite the fact that the cable already exists and carried a phone signal until the few weeks we refurbished the house (and is still in use for DSL).

But yes, I'd imagine maintenance and servicing of older, remoter, aspects of the POTS network is being neglected - after all it costs money, and the shareholders are ever baying for profit. Hopefully you'll get some mobile coverage from one of the networks soon... Have you got any signal from any of them? I have a 4g router which will take an external antenna - though I didn't need it, even when it was in a metal box, then inside a shipping containter, on a building site in what's usually referred to as a blackspot (but I've always had OK signal)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Biospace
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Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Biospace »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 3:42pm Well, we can't see what was said as it's been removed.

However, as I recall it, you first referred to Covid vaccines as "supposed vaccines" without explanation. Most people would interpret this as challenging their scientific basis.

When pressed you demurred, that of course, you actually agreed with the facts, it was merely a difference in terminology between you and the entire medical profession.

You also insinuated that the vaccinations do not reduce onward transmission, which a couple of minutes research showed to be false (and I posted to a paper demonstrating this). In other words, they might indeed kill Granny if they didn't get vaccinated, no "psyops" insinuations needed.

These, doubtless unwittingly on your part, are very similar to tactics used by conspiracy theorists.
We’re in danger of going round and round unable to introduce real world (and verified, "official", public domain) data due to certain sensitivities, but what I made extremely clear was that for me, a “vaccine” is something which is given once or twice and is effective for a very long time, so it should not be a surprise I should use the word “supposed”. Perhaps I didn’t fully take into account some people’s sensitivities, but it accurately represents my personal view. Traditionally, vaccines have been withdrawn with fewer than ten serious adverse events per million.

I was neither “pressed” by anyone nor did l “demure”, but I did highlight some truly extraordinary responses (when challenged, there is no denial that things were mis-read) and made it clear I chose to stick with what I’d grown up believing the word “vaccine” to mean.

You read things into what was written, the point I was making regarding the Granny comment was that given the power of Nudge Units is so high, they should be capable of persuading richer pensioners not to claim their £300 winter payment - so why not do so?

Are those who close down the slightest mention of something they’re not in agreement with aware of how there is the danger of raising concerns, of even making a situation appear to be some form of cover-up?
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Biospace wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 6:14pm

but what I made extremely clear was that for me, a “vaccine” is something which is given once or twice and is effective for a very long time, so it should not be a surprise I should use the word “supposed”.
You only "made this extremely clear" later when challenged.

And it's simply wrong.

If you want to be outside of normal discourse, don't be surprised if you mislead people as to your views.

I can't be bothered with the rest of the conspiracy ideation.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Biospace wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 6:14pm I chose to stick with what I’d grown up believing the word “vaccine” to mean.
And ignored those who could tell you what the word actually means - It's not a debate, what you remember is just wrong, it's not a matter of opinion.

The second half of Mr Ford's quote comes to mind:
- The customer is always right... when it comes to matters of taste.

If you wanted your face mask to be covered in cat prints, then that's fine (assuming of course that the mask itself is still effective) - but wearing a mask during a pandemic caused by an airborne virus isn't a matter of taste, it's one of science and risk management.

Some of us are still habitually wearing masks, because actually the cost to do is small compared with the benefits of not sharing your viruses (of all airborne sorts). They aren't as effective for those who are wearing them as for others, but there is still a significant benefit.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Jdsk »

Another doctor struck off the register:
https://www.mpts-uk.org/-/media/mpts-ro ... aug-24.pdf

It's worth reading the reports of what he actually said.

Jonathan

PS: This is the same Samuel White who previously had an interim order overturned because they got the process wrong:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... 031221.pdf
https://www.mountfordchambers.com/freed ... ng-speech/
axel_knutt
Posts: 3443
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by axel_knutt »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 7:21pm
pwa wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 3:51pm I have a little conspiracy theory of my own going on at the moment. One with more than a hint of veracity.

For the last few months BT have had vans in our village nearly every working day. Mainly to do with the installation of fibre-optic cable. I've no problem with that in itself. I will probably opt for fibre-optic myself one day. But on about four occasions in the last few months our copper-cable land line has failed in part or completely. We live in a black spot for mobile signal, so our land line is our only phone/internet connection from the house. Each time it goes we go somewhere to make a call to a call centre (lots of options to go through, usually a wait) only to then get someone telling us we will have to wait up to four working days for a fix, or we will get a partial refund thereafter. Our longest wait to get connected back to the world was about 8 days. And it is now going crackly again, meaning it is soon to fail again. We are losing about one week per month now.

My theory is that they are deliberately neglecting the copper cable stuff now to speed up our decision to upgrade to fibre-optic. We don't have a real choice because BT have the only infrastructure that connects us to the rest of the world from our home, regardless of which "provider" we sign up to. They all have to use the BT cables for land line service.
Are you sure its copper, not alumin(i)um? They went through a phase of using the cheapest cable available back when they only had to provide signalling up to ~8kHz, rather than the up to 1MHz that DSL uses.
The old conductor based stuff is getting turned off at some point - potentially relatively soon. I couldn't get a landline connected to a house in January, despite the fact that the cable already exists and carried a phone signal until the few weeks we refurbished the house (and is still in use for DSL).

But yes, I'd imagine maintenance and servicing of older, remoter, aspects of the POTS network is being neglected - after all it costs money, and the shareholders are ever baying for profit. Hopefully you'll get some mobile coverage from one of the networks soon... Have you got any signal from any of them? I have a 4g router which will take an external antenna - though I didn't need it, even when it was in a metal box, then inside a shipping containter, on a building site in what's usually referred to as a blackspot (but I've always had OK signal)
The whole PSTN is being switched off on 1.1.27. Meanwhile Openreach has had a stop-sell policy in place for over a year now, if you have FTTP available there will be no new installations or repairs to copper lines, and no switching them to a new provider.

https://www.simpletelecoms.co.uk/Openre ... e-services
https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/pr ... l-updates/
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Jules59
Posts: 467
Joined: 16 Jan 2019, 2:34pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Jules59 »

Jdsk wrote: 15 Sep 2024, 12:06pm Another doctor struck off the register:
https://www.mpts-uk.org/-/media/mpts-ro ... aug-24.pdf

It's worth reading the reports of what he actually said.

Jonathan

PS: This is the same Samuel White who previously had an interim order overturned because they got the process wrong:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... 031221.pdf
https://www.mountfordchambers.com/freed ... ng-speech/
Thanks for the link.
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