Cycling UK Forum

Hi everyone. I need urgent guidance. I may have made a mistake!
I’ve just placed an order for his and hers electric bikes (getting old and painful). A substantial outlay for not having carbon fibre everywhere
The question. Rohloff or Enviolo?
I went for Enviolo, but now have a big doubt after reading further! I thought I had it sorted but…….
The gearing on the Enviolo is rather high, top 6 gears of the Rohloff. And this is my doubt. Most riding is road, but there are light mud/sandy gravelly trails in between. Forest tracks etc. not so much hills but potentially wet slippy surfaces. Cadence is better in these conditions I think, keep the legs and momentum going, but not speed. My fear is the Enviolo will make the bike too fast, too high gearing, in these conditions. Rohloff ( I have one on my current Santos tour bike) is excellent, thought it’s not electric.
Does anyone have experience of slow controlled riding with Enviolo? I tried it on a test at the shop but did not really play at slow riding. The test was too short and just on road.

Thanks for any good thoughts and feedback.
Cheers,
Andrew

Many folk on here don't seem to like them because of worries about efficiency but (IMHO) they're brilliant on e-bikes. The efficiency argument sort of ceases to matter, they're dead simple to use and the gearing isn't an issue, partly because the motor is boosting you at low speeds anyway.

My workplace has a fleet of Raleigh e-cargo bikes which use that hub gear and, even fully loaded, the gearing (combined with the motor) is easily low enough to cope with getting a loaded e-cargo bike up a hill.

Rohloff is the expensive option, I'm not even sure if any e-bikes come with a Rohloff?!
Also, you can get about 90% of the functionality by going for a Shimano Alfine 11sp hub gear if you really want the individual gear clicks rather than the continuous transmission on the Enviolo.

What are the bikes you've ordered?

I don't have a lot of Enviolo experience, just one test ride, but I thought the gearing range was at least as wide as the common E-bike 1x derailleur set up, so I doubt it's going to be a big issue. It hasn't been on my derailleur E-bike, though that's only used for urban riding.
If you still feel you need lower gears, can the chainring not be changed to lower them? My E-bike experience is that I don't spend much time riding above the cut off, so even on my 11 - 32 cassette I'm usually in the middle six gears.
I'd have loved a Rohloff E-bike, to go with my non E Rohloff bikes! I test rode a R&M Charger at the same time as the Enviolo bike, but it would IMO probably have been overkill.
As you've ordered two bikes, would it be possible to get the shop to hold one back while you evaluate the other?

rareposter wrote:......worries about efficiency but (IMHO) they're brilliant on e-bikes. The efficiency argument sort of ceases to matter,

the efficiency is much less important for sure but it still matters because it affects the range. I might still have an enviolo on an e-bike simply because I think they ought to be stronger than a typical IGH.

For an eBike, the 380% range of the Enviolo is more than adequate. They are fit and forget which is why bike hire companies love them. I presume there will be options for smaller chainrings on a mid-drive if you find you do need to lower the range? That's unlikely unless yoiu ride in hilly areas a lot.

rareposter wrote:......worries about efficiency but (IMHO) they're brilliant on e-bikes. The efficiency argument sort of ceases to matter,

the efficiency is much less important for sure but it still matters because it affects the range. I might still have an enviolo on an e-bike simply because I think they ought to be stronger than a typical IGH.

Brucey wrote: ↑18 Feb 2024, 6:42pm

rareposter wrote:......worries about efficiency but (IMHO) they're brilliant on e-bikes. The efficiency argument sort of ceases to matter,

the efficiency is much less important for sure but it still matters because it affects the range. I might still have an enviolo on an e-bike simply because I think they ought to be stronger than a typical IGH.

Apparently they are a bit more efficient in the mid-range rather than at the extremes, so I'd want the 15mph threshold to not be top gear, say not in the top 20% of the range.

Andyhalsteren wrote: ↑18 Feb 2024, 12:31pm .............
The gearing on the Enviolo is rather high, top 6 gears of the Rohloff...............

What does this mean?
Does it mean the Enviolo will go as far per turn of the pedals as a Rohloff in the top 6 gears?
Rohloff gear 11 is direct drive, the lowest you are recommended to drive the Rohloff is a ratio of 2:1, this gives me a "cruising" gear at reasonably high cadence on 700c wheels.(around 54 inch, if that helps) So you will have only 2 gears lower than this?
Thats OK if you want to ride it like a motorcycle, blasting about powered by the battery, but it wouldn't do at all for me, picking my way on tracks.

I wonder if the enviolo hub (like many other IGHs) is susceptible to use with a welded double sprocket? If so, then this could be used to give a wider range and improved overall efficiency too.

@531colin. The lowest gear (not really a gear, but the ratio if I term this right) on the Enviolo is the same as gear 6 on the rohloff. So the gear spread is much narrower, no very low gears. I felt that riding slowly in the shop on their test track where you need control. There was almost no pedalling and you were away needing to ride on the brake. A bit like slow riding on a motorcycle. With the rohloff the 1 st gear is really low, lots of pedalling but not going fast. This is what I am used to. I can turn my current Santos in the lowest gear almost having the bars parallel with the main crossbar on the bike, a beautiful tight circle.
I did also think about the efficiency thing and range. It has to make a difference, though not sure how much.
@rareposter. Riese Müller Homage, with whistles, bells and flags. This is for everyday going to work, shopping general life, fun and touring around.
Back to the shop on Tuesday. Sent a mail on Sunday to hold the order. They phoned the factory! Shop is not open Monday

Thanks for all the replies. I think my mind is made up, but now you cannot get the little screen I wanted with the setup. Oh the problems…….

Brucey wrote: ↑19 Feb 2024, 11:14am I wonder if the enviolo hub (like many other IGHs) is susceptible to use with a welded double sprocket? If so, then this could be used to give a wider range and improved overall efficiency too.

The splined Eviolo spocket driver cannot take 2 sprockets normally (just a 2 mm filling washer) but a'm prettey sure it's possible to fit 2 sprockets with some "home engineering"

Removed

cycle tramp wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024, 4:52pm..however my nu-vinci had a low of about 27 inches... but that was slightly pointless because the lower the gear you chose on a nu-vinci the more energy sapping it became- especially up hill - indeed after I got rid of my nu-vinci I fitted a SA three speed with a low of 41 inches.... and not only did it take the same amount of effort to climb the same hills as the nu-vinci, the 3 speed hub was a little faster....

once again 'the most reliable gearchange mechanism ever' (as Sheldon Brown put it) proves its worth?

Keezx wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024, 11:38am

Brucey wrote: ↑19 Feb 2024, 11:14am I wonder if the enviolo hub (like many other IGHs) is susceptible to use with a welded double sprocket? If so, then this could be used to give a wider range and improved overall efficiency too.

The splined Eviolo spocket driver cannot take 2 sprockets normally (just a 2 mm filling washer) but a'm prettey sure it's possible to fit 2 sprockets with some "home engineering"

I think the bike in question might be belt drive, which would knock this idea on it's head.
I still think 380% is going to be enough for an E-bike (Assuming the Enviolo is that version) as long as it can be configured to be where you want it, 25 - 95" would be perfect on an E-bike for me.