Sturmy Archer KB5 Trouble

[MMak]

Hi everyone, I am new here.
Few weeks ago I found an old bike with Sturmy Archer hub. It is a KB5 hub and it was a bit seized, I took it apart and cleaned it. When assembling I found it very difficult to connect the two parts of the indicator spindle that screw together through the axle key inside the axle. I finally managed to get the two parts to meet but only for a short while. As I screwed them, the tiny screw end of the spindle snapped, probably under the tension the springs put on the assembly and maybe even material fatigue.
Here I am looking for a replacement or a work-around. I would be very grateful for any advice.
Thank you

[MMak]

Here are some pictures of said spindle

[rogerzilla]

Ok, those are super-rare, and fragile as you have discovered.

The good news is that the thread is the same as on the FM, and those are common. The bad news is that the length of the LH rod will be different.

https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/2tables.pdf

I have all sorts of rods in my Crypt of C**p and it may be that there is one in there.

[hoogerbooger]

Could try asking Colwood Wheels.
https://colwoodwheelworks.co.uk/

Just about possible Vince may have some.....or can advise if any other can be made to work.

(I'm no expert....but I'm wondering if the problem was the axle key had rotated. When putting my K hub back together I recall the key kept rotating a little as the next bits went on and right hand spring was tensioned by screwing in the axle grub screw......... had about 4 attempts before the hole lined up......once the RH axle spring is in and tensioned the axle key is held pretty firmly in whatever rotation it is in......... as you know you need to be careful with this type of indicator and if the key hole is out of line...... well these thin indicators don't have much lateral strength)

[MMak]

Ok, those are super-rare, and fragile as you have discovered.

The good news is that the thread is the same as on the FM, and those are common. The bad news is that the length of the LH rod will be different.

https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/2tables.pdf

I have all sorts of rods in my Crypt of C**p and it may be that there is one in there.

Thanks for the info. Should you find one you could part with I would definitely be interested.

[MMak]

Could try asking Colwood Wheels.
https://colwoodwheelworks.co.uk/

Just about possible Vince may have some.....or can advise if any other can be made to work.

(I'm no expert....but I'm wondering if the problem was the axle key had rotated. When putting my K hub back together I recall the key kept rotating a little as the next bits went on and right hand spring was tensioned be screwing in the axle grub screw......... had about 4 attempts before the hole lined up......once the RH axle spring is in and tensioned the axle key is held pretty firmly in whatever rotation it is in......... as you know you need to be careful with this type of indicator and if the key hole is out of line...... well these thin indicators don't have much lateral strength)

A misalignment definitely played a role in the demise of the spindle but it wasn't the key that was the problem. I marked the key so I could see it's orientation when sliding it in. The spindle spring captured above the key gets compressed and misaligned with the key hole. I slightly bent the grab screw end of the spindle's counter part which must have weakened it. I eventually bought a stainless steel rod of the same diameter as the spindle to align the spring with the key hole. It was then I finally managed to meet the two spindle parts together and the screw snapped under the tension of both springs while trying to screw it all the way as it was only part way there. I was gutted.

[hoogerbooger]

I was gutted.

I can imagine.

If a new indicator can't be found, it may be possible to 're-rig' like an AW hub.......by removing (and keeping safely) the springs, RH springs' ferrule and retaining grub screw, from the axle and replacing the axle key with an AW key (ends filed down so flush with clutch carrier). I think an AW indicator will then fit. If so add an AW spring. The lock nut over the clutch has a somewhat rounded top.....so there might be some risk of the spring end splaying? ...so I'm thinking put a spring cover on both ends of the spring.

(Post war AW springs are not as strong as those in a K series and can be used with the trigger shifters as well as the quadrant and barrel shifter)

I don't know this will work....but worth a try if you have to wait a while to find a replacement indicator....

Good luck....and talk to/ whatsapp Vince at Colwood...as he will know.

[rjb]

The indicator looks to be 48tpi. This is similar to 6BA. Could you use a long 6ba screw as a temporary solution. Just a thought.

[hoogerbooger]

If you do end up trying to 're-rig' AW style you won't have the benefit of the line on the indicator for setting the gears. 1935 seems to be the year they changed from No Intermediate Gear (NIG) to non- NIG, so yours may be either. If it is NIG you probably need to be more careful setting gears ( perhaps by marking alignments on the chain or indicator with the RH nut). I believe the clutches are relatively brittle and were more prone to chipping in the NIG arrangement. You can check which type you have by measuring the length of the gear ring dogs.....see attached which is from a document on K series hubs on the Hadland site:

[rogerzilla]

A-series indicators come in so many lengths that there is probably one which lines up correctly in middle gear. Or put your own groove on the rod.

[Brucey]

IIRC it is possible to fit a modified AW toggle key but not the matching control rod. The single-toggle 5s hubs use skinny control rods that will screw into an AW key, so maybe that is the way ahead.

I believe it is also possible to do something clever with an old spoke, a 2mm drill, and some epoxy resin.

[hoogerbooger]

The spindle spring captured above the key gets compressed and misaligned with the key hole.

My recollection is that I ended up holding the LH part of the indicator in place ...but not fully in, but through the key and I think the RH springs' ferrule, before I put the grub screw in. I carried on holding the LH part in that position and then, when the grub screw was in, carefully pushed in and turned the RH part of the indicator until I could feel the threads had engaged. Having the springs tensioned seemed to be part of the difficulty I was having.

[MMak]

Thank you to all who offered a valuable advice. I received very kind offer form a gentleman who has a spare KB4 and would like to donate it to my project. I will see when/if it arrives whether the indicator spindle as a whole fits my hub.

[hoogerbooger]

Spares always an issue with old hubs, so sounds a good solution for you.

(Worth checking if the KB5 gear ring is Non-NIG....as the Non-NIG's more robust)