Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

[reohn2]

Will the doing of 14years of disasterous government ever be put right and the country be anywhere near leveled up?
I'll be honest I've never been more cynical of either of the two major parties likely to form a UK government,I'm 71 and I can't see the country ever,in my lifetime,getting back on it's feet and being a truly democratic country that cares for poorest and makes the rich pay their fair share.
Lierally the fabric of society is crumbling about us as the rich get ever richer and the poorest of trampled on,it truly is depessing.

[Psamathe]

I agree.

In terms of getting the economy back on its feet, we fighting hard against self-imposed obstacles (Brexit).

In terms of getting some sort of ethical behaviour back into our governance, I can't see it happening with the current incumbents in Westminster. Conservatives happy to accept vast sums from people who feel it acceptable to throw out racism, misogynistic abuse and suggest MP are shot! Where Government Ministers suggest they'd be using violence against Civil Servants going about their business (Keegan). Where Government Ministers post untrue, unfounded defamation against innocent people on their personal Twitter account and get taxpayer to pay for compensation (Donelan).

And Labour have major issues eg 11+ months to investigate 8 sentences (Dianne Abbot). I had great hopes for Labour when Starmer took the Leadership but now they seem to be happy to do anything for a vote eg very happy with unlimited banker bonuses, dropping environmental budgets, dropping most commitments, etc. They now seem to be Conservatives under a different name.

My hope is for a hung Parliament. I don't thing that would be a good outcome but I suspect it might be the least worse option.

Ian

[Mike Sales]

Will the doing of 14years of disasterous government ever be put right and the country be anywhere near leveled up?
I'll be honest I've never been more cynical of either of the two major parties likely to form a UK government,I'm 71 and I can't see the country ever,in my lifetime,getting back on it's feet and being a truly democratic country that cares for poorest and makes the rich pay their fair share.
Lierally the fabric of society is crumbling about us as the rich get ever richer and the poorest of trampled on,it truly is depessing.

It will be a big job, but we have done it before.
In 1945 the country was devastated and in debt, with many remaining slums.
We built a revolutionary health service which we still treasure, and 2.5m Council houses to decent standards, many of which were sold off cheap by a succeeding administration. They are often now exploited for private profit.
Since then our productivity has grown and we have a living standard (for many) which was undreamed of in the forties. Some of that should be used to build a better, fairer country.

It will take political will and public spirit. Have we still got that?

[simonineaston]

As far as I can tell, we’re entered into a “new chautaqua” - or do I mean “paradigm”? I don’t know.
Parliament is pretty much broken, as the last of the decent MPs are heading out the door. Democracy is bust, too, now that all real power has been ceded to finance and tech..
Austerity (which Alexei Sayle reminds us is the idea that the global financial crash of 2008 was caused by there being too many libraries in Wolverhampton…) has systematically stripped our public services of all the funds needed to give us all the core services we depend on, for cradle to grave care, especially for anyone vulnerable.
And if that isn’t a bleak picture enough, recall that the above is no accident. The neoliberal, Hayek /Rand worshipping hard right worked out years ago how to turn us all in to cash cows, pocket all our hard earned in the form of profit and make it all disappear into their personal wallets, never to be seen again. And they are not about to let any of that change! Nothing will change. We face two options - revolution or, more likely, extinction.
Happy Saint Patrick’s day - have a glass of stout on me…

[reohn2]

.....It will take political will and public spirit. Have we still got that?

I don't think we have got that,after WW2 the country in the previous six years of war the country was united and determined to make things,prior to WW2 things were as they are presently with a huge gap between rich and poor,since the 1970's things resorted slowly to as they were previously in the past 14years that has accelerated,corruption is as bad as any third world country and public services in steep decline.
We have a situation where the likes of our present PM his family and a very few others having more wealth than the remaining 50% of the country,that has been orchestrated by the uber rich which own and control the media by buying democracy by the rich for the rich.
AFAICS Starmer is on that same hook but I love to be proved wrong.

This country needs a radical rethink and nothing short of political revolution will change anything,we could be reaching a watershed but people are fickle and tend to follow snakeoil salesmen and the like.

Personally I've got to the stage where I can't bear to watch either Sunak or Starmer spouting.I do watch QT and note the audiences over the past few years giving short shrift to the politicians on the panels,I'm hoping for change but feel there's no one radical enough to make that change.

EDIT:- just to add that as long as money buys polics the ordinary people will suffer and that's because like a drug for the blood(money)suckers at the top enough is never enough.

[reohn2]

Simonineaston
Cheers!
Sadly I don't think you're far off the mark there.

[Pebble]

Starmer will be alright if he can sail in a straight line, but there is a lot of crew that want to tack heavily to port, if that happens we will flounder on the rocks, we're in treacherous waters


(i'm under several warnings so could disappear at any moment, if so, bye all and I have enjoyed your company)

[axel_knutt]

if that happens we will flounder on the rocks, we're in treacherous waters

Keir Starmer needs to steer calmer waters?

[Carlton green]

Starmer will be alright if he can sail in a straight line, but there is a lot of crew that want to tack heavily to port, if that happens we will flounder on the rocks, we're in treacherous waters

Starmer will be alright and Labour will get two terms if they pursue centre ground policies, and at least two terms should be their aim.

The country can turn around but it will take time and I suspect that there’s going to be pain too. How long is hard to say, but I think it’ll be upwards of two years before we start to notice even small improvements - just to stop things getting any worse will be a challenge.

What people mostly forget is that our first aim should always be to limit the number of conservative MP’s such that that party - or any other substantially right wing party - is not in power. Some people complain that Labour is not left wing enough and forget that whilst a moderate Labour Party might not be ideal for them such a moderate party gaining and remaining in power is far far better then having Tories in power.

The Labour Party have a history of loosing winnable elections … . Starmer just needs to hold steady and be allowed to score a massively important goal into an open net. Sunak will hold off an election for as long as possible, he knows he’s facing a massive defeat and his only hope is that Labour trip up badly before they can score an election victory.

[Psamathe]

...
The country can turn around but it will take time and I suspect that there’s going to be pain too. ...

My worry is that with Starmer and his current direction the pain will be endured by those already struggling. Lower down the income scale and more in meed will be endure more of the pain. Bit those at the top will continue not even being aware there is pain. Bankers getting their unlimited bonuses, company bosses enjoying no tax increases, etc.

But Starmer seems to be pursuing votes rather than good governance and doing what the country meeds.

Ian

[reohn2]

Starmer will be alright if he can sail in a straight line, but there is a lot of crew that want to tack heavily to port, if that happens we will flounder on the rocks, we're in treacherous waters


(i'm under several warnings so could disappear at any moment, if so, bye all and I have enjoyed your company)

The country is already on the rocks and floundering,and that politicians never been held in such low esteem by the electorate.
First off the ship is in need of major repair to make it seaworthy,our whole political system is a cesspit of overt corruption that fails miserably to serve the people it should be serving the buying of politicians by big business,the Murdochs and other oligarchs of this world,UK politics is in urgent need of complete reform,until that happens there'll be no democracy in the UK,one only need look at the Brexit debacle to realise what's been going on for far too long.

[cycle tramp]

Starmer will be alright if he can sail in a straight line, but there is a lot of crew that want to tack heavily to port, if that happens we will flounder on the rocks, we're in treacherous waters


(i'm under several warnings so could disappear at any moment, if so, bye all and I have enjoyed your company)

Thank you - I have enjoyed your company as well, and remain envious of the bike you ride, the environs in which it is ridden and your skill in 3d printing work

[Stevek76]

Economically labour absolutely needs to go port.

Without significant public investment they won't be getting a second term.

The idea that a bit of reform and competency is all that's needed and the private sector will rush to invest in a country with broken infrastructure is economically inept.

What he'll actually do is an unknown, the only certainty is he's shown himself to be a stereotypical politician and has zero sense of being held to anything he's said or promised before.

Still, the current noises from him and particularly Reeve's perpetuating nonsense comparisons of national fiscal policy to household budgets and credit cards isn't promising.

[cycle tramp]

Lierally the fabric of society is crumbling about us as the rich get ever richer and the poorest of trampled on,it truly is depessing.

I think we need to be the change we wish to see in our society.

We could be the examples to others that by moving under our own power, growing and harvesting our own food and perhaps energy, and through our support of our local businesses we can bring around positive changes and empowered without having to go on protest marches.

Sadly - for me, any type of political intervention to solve our current issues is doomed. The government (by which I mean the civil service, and their ideas, the lobbyists, and the special interests groups and their view of the world) will always get in.

[simonineaston]

I don’t think on the whole, people have grasped how utterly desperate things are…
I have sympathy with that idea - after all, who want to go like oh that’s it then - my kids will likely die of war, famine or heat… ?