Cycling UK Forum

Hi all,

I'm in the UK presently and have been celebrating my masochistic streak on all manner of very steep hills. Today I did 109km and 2654m of elevation around Matlock, Wirksworth and Bakewell and greatly enjoyed it.

The issue I had though was braking. I'm a lump of a guy (102kg, 203cm) and the descents are very steep. I had the smell of burning brake pads on the very first steep descent, and beyond that I was working with some rather spent pads.

Is there a type of pad that handles long, heavy descents better? Should I be intermittently braking to allow the discs to cool? Any other tips?

I'm swapping the pads out in the morning before heading to Devon and embarking on more hilly silliness.

Yes, if you detect them getting hot then give them a rest.

Beyond that... what type of brakes and what are the current pads?

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 5:27pm Yes, if you detect them getting hot then give them a rest.

Beyond that... what type of brakes and what are the current pads?

Jonathan

Hard to rest them when you're hurtling down a 20% decline towards a junction! Derbyshire isn't famous for it's road network design logic.

Ultegra hydraulic calipers, not sure on the pads.

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 5:20pmAny other tips?

There are two circumstances when the brakes generate no heat at all:

1) When they're not applied
2) When the bike's not moving

Sometimes you can get close enough to the former, but you can always get close enough to the latter.

The theory is that you don't drag your brakes or at least alternate them. Brake hard then let off. Doesn't seem wise on short sharp twisty descents . The answer is, I suspect,rest the brakes, maybe by alternating. Go in dead slow so you don't build up much speed maybe?

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 5:20pm Is there a type of pad that handles long, heavy descents better? Should I be intermittently braking to allow the discs to cool? Any other tips?

Organic pads are generally slightly better in terms of outright braking force, the downside being that they don't last that long and are more prone to fade under prolonged hard braking.
Sintered pads last longer and give more consistent braking in wet conditions.
There's now a third option called semi-metallic which is kind of like organic but with metal particles for better durability than plain organic. They're the most expensive of the lot.

I've always gone with sintered. When you fit new pads, bed them in properly - there's any number of guides online about how to bed in brakes:
Park Tools: https://youtu.be/BWQxGzHQZVU?si=b71z99MRYGDiFTqJ

Shimano do finned pads for road bikes too which aid the cooling but they're more expensive than regular non-finned pads. Personally in the UK I'm not sure I've ever got my brakes hot enough to justify finned but they're brilliant on European descents. Also, disc brakes work better when you apply them hard, release, reapply etc rather than being dragged. Kind of like ABS on a car how it applies and releases the brake (in the case of ABS, many times a second) to prevent lock up and reduce heat build up. You can do the same on a bike, discs work better that way and cos you've got more modulation you can apply them way harder than rim brakes.

Use the speed of the descent to cool the brakes via airflow.

You could see if any nearby bike shop has suitable pads with cooling fins or even the better rotors https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technolo ... ogies.html. I also understand that sintered or metal pads wear more slowly than resin but are more likely to squeal when wet. Otherwise you'll have to approach any big descent with more caution or hope there's a strong headwind trying to push you back up the hill.

Ceramic pads are supposed to be best for heat dissipation, at the cost of longevity. the hard wearing sintered ones are probably the worst for heat and the longest lasting. Discobrakes have a chart of their compounds attributes, they'll apply broadly to other makes as well, thought the compounds might not be identical. Pads with fins might help, I haven't tried them but that's their purpose.
https://www.discobrakes.com/index.php?s ... =compounds&

I don't find the peak District hills that much of an issue, with some notable exceptions. Most of them are short, so it's a matter of keeping speeds manageable.

The brakes on the bikes that I use are poor on one bike and only a bit better on the other; one has side pull callipers and the other centre pulls. All over the country folk have ridden such bikes for decades (their brake performance has not changed) and, somehow, they got by.

I’m not light and some of the hills around here are steep, my way of managing them is to enter the decent at a very slow speed and never to let the speed rise. If I think that the decent will be too much for the brakes then, and this is rare, I’ll dismount and walk down. Of course such caution is no fun and each to their own. However, if I’m coming down a hill then I want to be in control of the bike rather than worrying about brake fade and what I might end up hurting.

First question would be what type of brake, I'd have thought? Some brakes can be adjusted to give better or worse braking (strictly, all brakes can, but some are more sensitive to it, in less obvious ways).

I agree, I was always urged to pump brakes a bit, so that you have an idea of how much you have in reserve. But that's hard to do when you're hanging on for dear life. Like you, I'm relatively heavy, and frankly these days I'd rather ride up a 1:5 than down.

It's easy to kill disc pads in the Peak District, rim blocks last better! My record was new pads in the morning, killed completely by the end of a Derbyshire loop. You certainly can get some impressive heat on some Derbyshire descents, my rotors are constantly warm enough to cause discolouration. (i've had puncture heat induced blowouts with rim brakes, something you wont get with discs) Of course the silly little 140 rotors used on modern road bikes are not fit for purpose, even 160mm aren't really up to serious downhill use, my CX/touring machine rocks 180 front, 160 rear - the front still gets 'burnt' but less than the smaller rotors.

My 'technique', if you can call it that, for minimising wear and heat build up is to let the bike run as much as possible, use the stoppers to scrub off a lot of speed ahead of turns and you'd be surprised how effective just sitting up acts as an air brake. On steeper descents, hanging your weight off the rear of the saddle means the rear brake takes a bit more of the strain and helps negate tipping forward under braking. TBH its easier to demonstrate than describe.

Thanks for all the replies folks - lots to think about!

foxyrider wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 7:08pm It's easy to kill disc pads in the Peak District, rim blocks last better! My record was new pads in the morning, killed completely by the end of a Derbyshire loop. You certainly can get some impressive heat on some Derbyshire descents, my rotors are constantly warm enough to cause discolouration. (i've had puncture heat induced blowouts with rim brakes, something you wont get with discs) Of course the silly little 140 rotors used on modern road bikes are not fit for purpose, even 160mm aren't really up to serious downhill use, my CX/touring machine rocks 180 front, 160 rear - the front still gets 'burnt' but less than the smaller rotors.

My 'technique', if you can call it that, for minimising wear and heat build up is to let the bike run as much as possible, use the stoppers to scrub off a lot of speed ahead of turns and you'd be surprised how effective just sitting up acts as an air brake. On steeper descents, hanging your weight off the rear of the saddle means the rear brake takes a bit more of the strain and helps negate tipping forward under braking. TBH its easier to demonstrate than describe.

I'm pretty sure that the pads were close to new at the start of the ride! 2654m up means 2654m down too.

It was just a bit of a sketchy day for descending today. Storm Kathleen made her presence felt, so lots of unstable cross winds on descents too. Plus intermittent heavy rain, lots of water on the road and grit and gravel too.

I'm just not used to heavy braking. You have to do it a bit on the gravel at home as the roads are steeper, but asphalt braking is rare as nearly all the roads are 8% gradient or less, with run offs and no junctions or sharp corners at the bottom. The area around Matlock is quite tightly built up, with steep, windy lanes and sudden stops needed quite often.

I will look into 180mm rotors though, definitely.

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 8:30pm The area around Matlock is quite tightly built up, with steep, windy lanes and sudden stops needed quite often.

I will look into 180mm rotors though, definitely.

You're in my neck of the woods!

Check that the bike will even take 180mm rotors. Some won't and some - especially road bikes - are only rated for 160mm max.
FWIW, I've raced the Three Peaks CX on 160 / 140mm and plenty of road bikes still come with that set-up.

My current road bike (a very new model) is 160mm front and rear and that's coped with some extreme descents both here and in France/Spain with no issues at all.

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 8:30pm Storm Kathleen made her presence felt, so lots of unstable cross winds on descents too. Plus intermittent heavy rain, lots of water on the road and grit and gravel too.

That's pretty normal around here to be honest!
I love my gravel bike as an "all-rounder", especially on the steep lanes, potholed roads and generally wet weather. Makes more sense than a pure road bike a lot of the time and it's certainly my go-to for winter riding. That's 160mm rotors too - Shimano hydraulics, no problems at all.

rareposter wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 8:43pm

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 8:30pm The area around Matlock is quite tightly built up, with steep, windy lanes and sudden stops needed quite often.

I will look into 180mm rotors though, definitely.

You're in my neck of the woods!

Check that the bike will even take 180mm rotors. Some won't and some - especially road bikes - are only rated for 160mm max.
FWIW, I've raced the Three Peaks CX on 160 / 140mm and plenty of road bikes still come with that set-up.

My current road bike (a very new model) is 160mm front and rear and that's coped with some extreme descents both here and in France/Spain with no issues at all.

Jon in Sweden wrote: ↑7 Apr 2024, 8:30pm Storm Kathleen made her presence felt, so lots of unstable cross winds on descents too. Plus intermittent heavy rain, lots of water on the road and grit and gravel too.

That's pretty normal around here to be honest!
I love my gravel bike as an "all-rounder", especially on the steep lanes, potholed roads and generally wet weather. Makes more sense than a pure road bike a lot of the time and it's certainly my go-to for winter riding. That's 160mm rotors too - Shimano hydraulics, no problems at all.

Ah, very good! I'll give you a shout next Easter when I'm back again

I'm on a Cube Cross Race, but with 28/30mm road tyres. Very capable and I haven't felt that the potholes are as bad here as say, Northamptonshire. Perhaps a step up to 32/34mm wouldn't be a bad ideal. I did have my rear tyre lock up momentarily as I was coming to a junction.

I think the issue is simply gravity and my weight. I pick up speed very quickly.