Women only club rides

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I thought you’d say something like that, although I confess to being surprised/baffled by the last clause.

[mjr]

Pointing out how the club Nearholmer is referring to absolutely isn't inclusive has been removed by the mods once already

No post has been removed by a moderator. The only post that has been removed was deleted by the poster, and that post did not point out 'how the club Nearholmer is referring to absolutely isn't inclusive', it was a rebuttal of your previous post.

Inappropriate off-topic posts about clubs' policies on helmet wearing have been removed.

Which of the above is correct?

And I've no post showing previous to that removal notice that I can see. And this forum doesn't let me see any posts I may have made which may have been removed.

[slowster]

Which of the above is correct?

And I've no post showing previous to that removal notice that I can see. And this forum doesn't let me see any posts I may have made which may have been removed.

My mistake. I thought you were referring to a post which a poster made yesterday in reply to your post here - viewtopic.php?p=1918017#p1918017, but which they subsequently deleted.

I did indeed intervene last year when the thread had just started and was beginning to turn into a helmet thread rather than responding to a new member's request for feedback on experiences of introducing women only club rides.

[TrevA]

.
Newcomers start off with the Breeze ride, which is only 12-15 miles and at a gentle pace. People often turn up on a hybrid bike, but then usually buy a road bike when they progress to the Friday group rides.

Yeah. 'When they progress to the Friday group rides'. There's the problem right there. Cycling for that sort of club has to be done the right way, on road bikes, probably fast, else the rider has yet to progress. Clubs like that running women-only rides is both not addressing the exclusivity in the main club and abandoning minorities like riders with reduced mobility or health conditions.

That may be why Breeze has only weak evidence for fixing problems in its host British Cycling clubs, despite years of expensively trying.

People keep referring to my deleted post, so I’ll repost it for clarity.

Not everyone progresses from the Breeze group to the Friday Ladies Road Bike Rides. Some stick with the Breeze group and at least one of those have also got themselves trained up as a Breeze Ride Leader. The Breeze Ride, which takes place on a weekday evening during the summer, has a sister ride on a Sunday called the Sunday Steadies. It’s the same speed as the Breeze but a bit further, with a cafe stop. Hybrids, shopping bikes, Bromptons, etc are welcome and even encouraged on this ride. Again, some start off on these rides and progress, others are happy to stick with them. Also, the easiest Friday Ladies group, is also the same speed as the Breeze ride and also suitable for different types of bikes.

The Sunday Steadies isn’t actually a women only ride, but it’s mostly women who go on it. The club is a broad church and all are welcome. There are specific rides to cater for specific needs. They try to cover as many bases as possible, but the club is run by volunteers, many of whom have jobs and families, so there’s only so much that they can do.

It feels like the club is being lambasted for trying to do the right thing here. Many clubs don’t even try. My other club has 7 female members, out of a total of 65. 6 of them have partners who also ride with club. That’s probably more like the norm for cycling clubs.

Another club locally has a 3 rides on a Saturday where the stated speed of the slowest ride is 17.5mph! Hardly beginner friendly. They don’t have many female members either. I wonder why??

Getting more women on bikes is a tough nut to crack. In fact, getting more people onto bikes is also a tough nut to crack.

[mattheus]

[deleted, edited, and reposted at 11:50 20/8/2025]

[slowster]

The issue raised by the OP was about increasing the levels of participation in cycling and/or cycling clubs of a group which is under-represented.

To a greater or lesser extent there will be various barriers to entry in joining a club and barriers to participation, some of which will be explicit, such as a minimum fitness level (speed/stamina), and others of which may be less obvious and /or difficult to define and quantify their impact. If any of those barriers disproportionately affect women, that is relevant to the issue raised by the OP. If compulsory helmet wearing on a club's rides is significantly more of a barrier to women than for men, that is relevant to the issue raised by the OP.

[mjr]

Pointing out how the club Nearholmer is referring to absolutely isn't inclusive has been removed by the mods once already, so I'll only point out the 'head-down/bum-up' logo and that there is no category for slow long-distance rides, rather than discuss the specific exclusionary rules.

Here's where we differ, I don't see why any club should have that obligation imposed on them. I don't see a problem with a head-down/bum-up club, anymore than the other examples I've given.

Nobody imposed this obligation on BC clubs. BC chose to accept millions from the government, lottery funds and sponsors to make itself more inclusive. That's what should oblige them to actually deliver, for women and also for minorities.

Then at a second level, individual BC clubs have chosen to take the Breeze shillings and be part of that flawed project. I don't dwell too much on that, or blame individual clubs too much, as arguably BC HQ have set them up to fail by giving them the wrong tools for the job.

Your stereotypical characterisation as pale male stale clubs isn't born out by my observations.

And would you be an older pale-skinned cyclist of the male persuasion, perchance?

This is one of my local sporty clubs, plenty of talk about improving, reaching goals, etc... They haven't excluded me, but neither are they offering any of the cycling activities I'd want to participate in. What measure of success would you choose to use if not the number of participants enjoying what they provide?

I'd also use how well the demographics of those participants reflect the population of their area. I don't see how a club can claim to be inclusive if they're only welcoming a certain subset.

I doubt they'd recognise mattheus's idea that they're just a bunch of mates, or feel any obligation to cater for other interests.
https://www.cyclemickleover.co.uk/

That website doesn't load here. The spinner never stops.

[Jdsk]

...
This is one of my local sporty clubs, plenty of talk about improving, reaching goals, etc... They haven't excluded me, but neither are they offering any of the cycling activities I'd want to participate in. What measure of success would you choose to use if not the number of participants enjoying what they provide? I doubt they'd recognise mattheus's idea that they're just a bunch of mates, or feel any obligation to cater for other interests.
https://www.cyclemickleover.co.uk/

Site displaying OK. Safari on macOS and Safari on iOS.

Jonathan

[mattheus]

...

This is one of my local sporty clubs, plenty of talk about improving, reaching goals, etc... They haven't excluded me, but neither are they offering any of the cycling activities I'd want to participate in. What measure of success would you choose to use if not the number of participants enjoying what they provide? I doubt they'd recognise mattheus's idea that they're just a bunch of mates, or feel any obligation to cater for other interests.
https://www.cyclemickleover.co.uk/

We may be at cross-purposes :-)
I can only go by their website, but they look pretty inclusive/diverse. The ride descriptions seem to cover a wide range, and there are pics of
- riders in santa uniforms
- riders acting out a book-club
- a variety of body-shapes
- riders in the harbour at Whitehaven (C2C start)
- a bloke with a kilo of baked beans on his plate
...etc
TO ME this is a good look. (hopefully all the h*lmet-wearers do so by choice, not coercion)

[PH]

We may be at cross-purposes :-)
I can only go by their website, but they look pretty inclusive/diverse. The ride descriptions seem to cover a wide range, and there are pics of

Maybe we are, but they don't meet mjr's criteria that you jumped in to praise.

[PH]

Nobody imposed this obligation on BC clubs. BC chose to accept millions from the government, lottery funds and sponsors to make itself more inclusive. That's what should oblige them to actually deliver, for women and also for minorities.

You choose your own criteria, but the idea that British Cycling have failed to get more women cycling is yet another thing that doesn't match my observations, or experience. I know several women who've taken up cycling via Breeze, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't recognise your impression of it.

Your stereotypical characterisation as pale male stale clubs isn't born out by my observations.

And would you be an older pale-skinned cyclist of the male persuasion, perchance?

You know that I am. But as I have no involvement with the clubs you denigrate with that description I fail to see the relevance.

[mjr]

Nobody imposed this obligation on BC clubs. BC chose to accept millions from the government, lottery funds and sponsors to make itself more inclusive. That's what should oblige them to actually deliver, for women and also for minorities.

You choose your own criteria, but the idea that British Cycling have failed to get more women cycling is yet another thing that doesn't match my observations, or experience. I know several women who've taken up cycling via Breeze, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't recognise your impression of it.

You invited me to choose criteria! It is somewhat naughty to now portray doing so as unreasonable. My criteria are not unreasonable in themselves.

Several women. Whoopee(!) Even British Cycling's own marketing says it has been just 350,000 women. While I expect that's been great for them, is that a good enough return for the £2.5m a year that they say they were given for this in the years before the pandemic? (I suspect that was the highest funding in the 12+ years and it's been less since.) And what effect has this spending through BC had for other underrepresented groups? It seems dashed hard to find any project evaluation reports on the BC website, quantitative or qualitative.

Your stereotypical characterisation as pale male stale clubs isn't born out by my observations.

And would you be an older pale-skinned cyclist of the male persuasion, perchance?

You know that I am. But as I have no involvement with the clubs you denigrate with that description I fail to see the relevance.

Someone else claimed this is "purely between the ears of the beholder" so I'm just clarifying who's beholding it not to exist.

[mjr]

We may be at cross-purposes :-)
I can only go by their website, but they look pretty inclusive/diverse. The ride descriptions seem to cover a wide range, and there are pics of

Maybe we are, but they don't meet mjr's criteria that you jumped in to praise.

So the website is misleading? That wouldn't be a first!

[PH]

So the website is misleading? That wouldn't be a first!

To be specific, I don't think there are any sporting clubs that don't have the attitude that...

... going faster or riding a lighter less comfortable bike is 'progress', and us 'gimps and wobblies' (in the words of their former national team manager) are labelled 'beginners' or 'improvers' or similar condescension

I've never heard any being rude about it, or condescending, that's how they see cycling, that's the cycling they're interested in, if you're lucky they may know of a club better suited, but most likely they'll just not comprehend that someone riding slowly doesn't want to "Improve". There is room for differences, the popularity of such clubs demonstrates that.

I'll leave the personal stuff to one side, if you think my ethnicity and age are relevant, I don't think that's my problem.

[Nearholmer]

when the Nietzschean superman ideal is still there deeply behind the mask

It probably is in some clubs, and there are doubtless a few that don’t even bother with a mask, but it isn’t there in all, and I’ll repeat that when looking at the more inclusive BC affiliated clubs it is only present between the ears of the beholder.

If a person was to look at all/any BC affiliated clubs while viewing them through an assumption that they operate to that ideal, they would in a genuine sense be viewing them prejudicially, they would have made their mind up prior to examining the evidence.

This, from the coming week’s ride schedule, doesn’t look particularly Nietzschean to me, although I suppose people might get into competitive eating as a means to demonstrate willpower.