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Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 11:07am
by Colin63
That's sad to read and I hope that they don't disappear.
I've ridden Mercians for over 40 years since buying my first from Beta Bikes in Swiss Cottage in 1982 (£300), but If I was in the market for a bespoke frame now I wouldn't choose a Mercian. Other builders have been more adventurous in frame geometries and are producing livelier bikes at much lower prices. I compare my KoM with a modern custom Hewitt and for me the Hewitt is a better frame and built to an equally high standard.
Mercian have become to the bicycle world what Morgan is to the car industry. But even if you love them they're too expensive.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 11:30am
by pwa
Looking at the Hewitt website, I can't see any own brand frames.
The fact is, demand for good quality steel framesets has been declining for about thirty years now, and may continue to decline. A few makers will survive to service a niche market, at a price, but others must fall by the wayside to allow supply to match the reduced demand. That is just the way it is.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 11:54am
by rareposter
pwa wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 11:30am
The fact is, demand for good quality steel framesets has been declining for about thirty years now, and may continue to decline. A few makers will survive to service a niche market, at a price, but others must fall by the wayside to allow supply to match the reduced demand. That is just the way it is.
I think the market for steel is as you say, the super-high-end. Demand for a "traditional" rim-braked, quick-release, skinny lugged steel frame as per Mercian now must be almost nil, especially at £1800 or so per frame. If you're spending that sort of money, you're not buying that sort of product.
However, there are plenty of very small-scale artisan / one-man-band framebuilders who are building modern geometry, disc-braked frames in steel but at higher prices. I bet there'll be some amazing examples at the Bespoked custom bike show in June in Manchester -
https://www.bespoked.cc/ if anyone is interested.
Quick example - this one in stainless steel which is a bit harder to build with (nearly 6000 euros for frame and fork)
https://www.jaegher.be/overview-ascender-fl-xr-road
Rob English is also worth a look for a gallery of stunning custom builds (including touring bikes)
https://www.englishcycles.com/cat/custombikes/
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 12:33pm
by pjclinch
rareposter wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 11:54am
I think the market for steel is as you say, the super-high-end. Demand for a "traditional" rim-braked, quick-release, skinny lugged steel frame as per Mercian now must be almost nil, especially at £1800 or so per frame. If you're spending that sort of money, you're not buying that sort of product.
I'd say "niche high" rather than "super-high". If I go and buy a Pog-a-like race bike I imagine it'll set me back quite a bit more than, say, a Shand with good mid-range componentry
rareposter wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 11:54am
However, there are plenty of very small-scale artisan / one-man-band framebuilders who are building modern geometry, disc-braked frames in steel but at higher prices. I bet there'll be some amazing examples at the Bespoked custom bike show in June in Manchester -
https://www.bespoked.cc/ if anyone is interested.
Indeed. My current interest in a Shand is based on them having proven designs for off-road touring with a Rohloff, Gates belt and hydraulic discs. That it'll be steel isn't really of that much interest to me one way or the other.
Pete.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 1:09pm
by Bmblbzzz
willcee wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 10:21am
hello, happened on this and contacted the biggest Ulster Mercian collector a friend, who's good friends with the owners and is well known in Mercian circles and the VCC.. this is his exact reply..
''Sadly they cant compete with mass production and the internet . Cyclists called into the shop and tried shoes on then bought them from wiggle at a cost Mercian could not buy them trade for. The bubble has burst as people have moved on to do other things and the cost of new bikes is shocking. If i was to pick between motorcycle trials and a new race bicycle I could take up trials cheaper than cycling and the trials bike has an engine.''
he's a motorcycle guy as well..
..I suppose ROLEX,Armani, Omega, and those guys in London a very old established gunmaker who make brilliant collectable shotguns are all feeling the pinch... sadly..will
I'm rather surprised that Mercian are even trying to sell shoes. I know Argos don't.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 1:10pm
by Bmblbzzz
pwa wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 11:30am
Looking at the Hewitt website, I can't see any own brand frames.
The fact is, demand for good quality steel framesets has been declining for about thirty years now, and may continue to decline. A few makers will survive to service a niche market, at a price, but others must fall by the wayside to allow supply to match the reduced demand. That is just the way it is.
There's enough demand to keep a few going. As pjclinch mentions, Shand are one, and there are many who are more "mainstream" eg Surly. Possibly there isn't enough demand to sustain a maker of lugged designs that could haven't changed for 40 years; but possibly there is. We don't know for certain that Mercian have closed.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 3:00pm
by pwa
To be fair to Mercian, they are/were reacting to the wants of individual customers, and if you wanted lugless with a sloping top tube, and disc brake fittings, that is what they sold you. And I wouldn't grumble at having to dig deep in the wallet for that kind of bespoke service. If that is what I wanted. It isn't as though I'd be wanting a new frame every five minutes. Those things are meant to be long-lasting perfection, rather than good value off-the-peg.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 3:21pm
by simonhill
There is another aspect apart from cost. It's longevity.
A bespoke bike is unlikely to be swapped out in a couple of years for the latest colour scheme or additional sprocket model.
Plenty of people here talking about bikes they bought decades ago. This doesn't help repeat buys.
I see Surly mentioned above. I have an LHT and can't see me buying another, unless I wanted discs, which I don't.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 21 May 2024, 6:31pm
by jimlews
rareposter wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 11:54am
I think the market for steel is as you say, the super-high-end. Demand for a "traditional" rim-braked, quick-release, skinny lugged steel frame as per Mercian now must be almost nil, especially at £1800 or so per frame. If you're spending that sort of money, you're not buying that sort of product.
However, there are plenty of very small-scale artisan / one-man-band framebuilders who are
building modern geometry, disc-braked frames in steel but at higher prices. I bet there'll be some amazing examples at the Bespoked custom bike show in June in Manchester -
https://www.bespoked.cc/ if anyone is interested.
For my information, what constitutes "modern geometry", please ?
Also, I wonder if a new bicycle today (even a bespoke steel bicycle) is not cheaper than one bought in say, 1903 when an SA two speed hub cost the equivalent of two weeks wages (£ 3.40)
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 22 May 2024, 12:24am
by JerseyJoe
Steel disc brake frames with wide clearance and even 650b wheels are really making a comeback. When you look at the price of a decent carbon disc frame (£2-5k) it's no suprise.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 22 May 2024, 12:25am
by JerseyJoe
I've just converted a 1990's Dawes Galaxy to disc with the addition of a few braze ons and a lovely pair of carbon disc forks! Looks weird - rides like a dream
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 22 May 2024, 7:48am
by TrevA
Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 1:09pm
willcee wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 10:21am
hello, happened on this and contacted the biggest Ulster Mercian collector a friend, who's good friends with the owners and is well known in Mercian circles and the VCC.. this is his exact reply..
''Sadly they cant compete with mass production and the internet . Cyclists called into the shop and tried shoes on then bought them from wiggle at a cost Mercian could not buy them trade for. The bubble has burst as people have moved on to do other things and the cost of new bikes is shocking. If i was to pick between motorcycle trials and a new race bicycle I could take up trials cheaper than cycling and the trials bike has an engine.''
he's a motorcycle guy as well..
..I suppose ROLEX,Armani, Omega, and those guys in London a very old established gunmaker who make brilliant collectable shotguns are all feeling the pinch... sadly..will
I'm rather surprised that Mercian are even trying to sell shoes. I know Argos don't.
Mercian closed their shop at Alvaston around 10 years ago, so the above comment regarding shoes is somewhat out of date. They continued to trade from their Workshop premises, mainly selling frames, complete bikes and a few parts.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 22 May 2024, 7:55am
by TrevA
jimlews wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 6:31pm
Also, I wonder if a new bicycle today (even a bespoke steel bicycle) is not cheaper than one bought in say, 1903 when an SA two speed hub cost the equivalent of two weeks wages (£ 3.40)
The average salary is now around £35000 a year which is approx £673 a week. 2 weeks salary would be £1346. Mercian are charging more than that for just a frame, but you can indeed buy a decent new bike for less than 2 weeks wages.
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 22 May 2024, 8:24am
by pjclinch
TrevA wrote: ↑22 May 2024, 7:55am
jimlews wrote: ↑21 May 2024, 6:31pm
Also, I wonder if a new bicycle today (even a bespoke steel bicycle) is not cheaper than one bought in say, 1903 when an SA two speed hub cost the equivalent of two weeks wages (£ 3.40)
The average salary is now around £35000 a year which is approx £673 a week. 2 weeks salary would be £1346. Mercian are charging more than that for just a frame, but you can indeed buy a decent new bike for less than 2 weeks wages.
Though as it happens that is in the ballpark of a state of the art hub gear!
Re: Are Mercian Cycles still in business?
Posted: 22 May 2024, 8:36am
by pwa
JerseyJoe wrote: ↑22 May 2024, 12:24am
Steel disc brake frames with wide clearance and even 650b wheels are really making a comeback. When you look at the price of a decent carbon disc frame (£2-5k) it's no surprise.
I see very few new high end steel frames these days. They have become a niche within a niche. I do see an occasional good steel frame, from the likes of Spa, Thorn or Surly, but very few bespoke frames from the likes of Mercian. The people who love Mercians and are willing to part with serious money for them are a small minority of the bicycle buying public, perhaps too small to sustain all the remaining makers of bespoke steel frames. But when the dust settles, a few makers will survive and continue to supply devotees with boutique frames.