Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles

[UpWrong]

"Pedestrian safety on the road to net zero: cross-sectional study of collisions with electric and hybrid-electric cars in Great Britain":
https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2024 ... 024-221902

Guardian coverage:
"Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... tudy-finds

Jonathan

The guardian article majors on lack of noise being the cause, although at the bottom adds, "But a difficulty in hearing electric cars is not the only problem. Electric cars tend to have swift acceleration and are usually much heavier, with some weighing twice their petrol equivalent, making stopping distances longer."

I saw a report by some insurance company concluding that BEVs were involved in more accidents because many were too powerful for the drivers' abilities.

[Carlton green]

"Pedestrian safety on the road to net zero: cross-sectional study of collisions with electric and hybrid-electric cars in Great Britain":
https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2024 ... 024-221902

Guardian coverage:
"Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... tudy-finds

Jonathan

The guardian article majors on lack of noise being the cause, although at the bottom adds, "But a difficulty in hearing electric cars is not the only problem. Electric cars tend to have swift acceleration and are usually much heavier, with some weighing twice their petrol equivalent, making stopping distances longer."

I saw a report by some insurance company concluding that BEVs were involved in more accidents because many were too powerful for the drivers' abilities.

The Insurance Companies really soak BEV’s but it’s a semi-competitive market so there will be underlying reasons for the high premiums. The (almost) silence of electric cars is a minor hazard to pedestrians, well I find it so and am mindful of it. I think that electric car drivers seem to be aware that pedestrians use sound to warm themselves of hazards and hence an unsighted electric car can be un-noticed.

The vast majority of BEV’s are sold as both a luxury and (unnecessarily) high powered product - imho such luxury goods should be more heavily taxed, but that’s a separate issue. Luxury loads insurance premiums and so does high power. They are also relatively heavy and relatively large making any collision more damaging to the other vehicle / other parties. Add into that the ease of doing non readily reparable damage (to the BEV) and you’ve got a multitude of factors which can but cost insurers a load of money.

To my mind Governments should have recognised the issues and stepped in. As I’ve said on these pages before, the weight, size and power of cars should be capped; such capping would see designs and models emerge that were cheaper to buy, easier to insure and better for the environment.

[simonhill]

Edit: In case anyone thinks my post ignores previous ones, it was the first post in a new thread with others later merged. See Vorpal's post below.

Article in The Guardian based on recent research. It's about pedestrians, but also applies in part to cyclists.

Extract:

"Hybrid and electric cars are more likely to strike pedestrians than petrol or diesel vehicles, particularly in towns and cities, according to an analysis of British road traffic accidents.

Data from 32bn miles of battery-powered car travel and 3tn miles of petrol and diesel car trips showed that mile-for-mile electric and hybrid cars were twice as likely to hit pedestrians than fossil fuel-powered cars, and three times more likely to do so in urban areas."


https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproj ... tudy-finds

[reohn2]

"Pedestrian safety on the road to net zero: cross-sectional study of collisions with electric and hybrid-electric cars in Great Britain":
https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2024 ... 024-221902

Guardian coverage:
"Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... tudy-finds

Jonathan

The guardian article majors on lack of noise being the cause, although at the bottom adds, "But a difficulty in hearing electric cars is not the only problem. Electric cars tend to have swift acceleration and are usually much heavier, with some weighing twice their petrol equivalent, making stopping distances longer."

I saw a report by some insurance company concluding that BEVs were involved in more accidents because many were too powerful for the drivers' abilities.

The Insurance Companies really soak BEV’s but it’s a semi-competitive market so there will be underlying reasons for the high premiums. The (almost) silence of electric cars is a minor hazard to pedestrians, well I find it so and am mindful of it. I think that electric car drivers seem to be aware that pedestrians use sound to warm themselves of hazards and hence an unsighted electric car can be un-noticed.

The vast majority of BEV’s are sold as both a luxury and (unnecessarily) high powered product - imho such luxury goods should be more heavily taxed, but that’s a separate issue. Luxury loads insurance premiums and so does high power. They are also relatively heavy and relatively large making any collision more damaging to the other vehicle / other parties. Add into that the ease of doing non readily reparable damage (to the BEV) and you’ve got a multitude of factors which can but cost insurers a load of money.

To my mind Governments should have recognised the issues and stepped in. As I’ve said on these pages before, the weight, size and power of cars should be capped; such capping would see designs and models emerge that were cheaper to buy, easier to insure and better for the environment.

Those are very good and important points that in the dash to be seen to be "green"(which IMO is a con) much of society hasn't yet woken upto yet.

[simonhill]

So are we meant to post any news about electric cars on that post of currently 157 pages.

Personally I never read the Tea Shop. I'd rather see interesting topics have their own post on the appropriate forum. Although in this case I was torn between on the road and campaign and public policy.

[Biospace]

"Pedestrian safety on the road to net zero: cross-sectional study of collisions with electric and hybrid-electric cars in Great Britain":
https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2024 ... 024-221902

Guardian coverage:
"Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... tudy-finds

Jonathan

The guardian article majors on lack of noise being the cause, although at the bottom adds, "But a difficulty in hearing electric cars is not the only problem. Electric cars tend to have swift acceleration and are usually much heavier, with some weighing twice their petrol equivalent, making stopping distances longer."

I saw a report by some insurance company concluding that BEVs were involved in more accidents because many were too powerful for the drivers' abilities.

I'm intrigued as to why their science editor believes low noise is such a factor in collisions with pedestrians.

Almost all the EVs I encounter at low speeds have an acoustic warning which is usually louder and clearer than engines at low speed. Once beyond 15mph or so it's tyre noise which dominates.

[Bmblbzzz]

So are we meant to post any news about electric cars on that post of currently 157 pages.

Personally I never read the Tea Shop. I'd rather see interesting topics have their own post on the appropriate forum. Although in this case I was torn between on the road and campaign and public policy.

Seconded.

[mattheus]

So are we meant to post any news about electric cars on that post of currently 157 pages.

It often seems like some people would prefer one endless chat topic (but ideally without any chat on topics that don't interest them!).
There would always be something new to read, no chance of getting bored!

[Vorpal]

I think this topic is important enough to keep it separate and have therefore moved a few posts over from the BEVs topic viewtopic.php?t=155428

Please use this thread for discussion specifically about the increased risk to pedestrians, and the other thread for general discussion of BEVs.

[mattheus]

Sounds sensible.

(do ya see what I did there?!?)

[Pendodave]

I'm slightly embarrassed to include my own anecdotal experiences in a thread which includes actual research but...
... I've really noticed that my close calls seem to disproportionately include EVs. My observation is that the particularly rapid acceleration that they have seems to encourage their drivers to "nip through" gaps and spaces that would cause pause in less sprightly vehicles. Ymmv.

[sjs]

I'm slightly embarrassed to include my own anecdotal experiences in a thread which includes actual research but...
... I've really noticed that my close calls seem to disproportionately include EVs. My observation is that the particularly rapid acceleration that they have seems to encourage their drivers to "nip through" gaps and spaces that would cause pause in less sprightly vehicles. Ymmv.

Maybe EVs are disproportionately company vehicles driven by arrogant folk in a hurry.

[Carlton green]

I'm slightly embarrassed to include my own anecdotal experiences in a thread which includes actual research but...
... I've really noticed that my close calls seem to disproportionately include EVs. My observation is that the particularly rapid acceleration that they have seems to encourage their drivers to "nip through" gaps and spaces that would cause pause in less sprightly vehicles. Ymmv.

Maybe EVs are disproportionately company vehicles driven by arrogant folk in a hurry.

I’d suggest that Pendodave’s experience isn’t unique and is indicative of some of the issues which happen to be more acute with BEV’s. Though more so with BEV’s I notice that in general all new / newer cars, regardless of engine type, are quieter, quicker and bigger than used to be the norm. To me as a pedestrian - and maybe as a cyclist too - those changes are proving hazardous.

Why so? Well my safety is the function of at least two parties, those parties being myself and other shared space users. Cars that are quiet do not make noise to warn you of their presence (as they used to); cars that are large leave less shared space to escape into; and cars that accelerate quickly leave one with less or even no time to get out of their way, they may also be accelerating faster than the driver really has ability to control and particularly so when the transmission is ‘automatic’ rather than ‘manual’.

Coupled with the above we have a significant proportion of BEV drivers using company / lease cars with insurance paid for by someone else. Such people might not have the ability to manage vey powerful automatic transmission cars; might well be distracted and pressured by their jobs; and might well be unconcerned about the personal consequences (zero to them) of insurance claims. Incompetence and power is never a good mix yet (for the reasons outlined above) expect to see even more of that with BEV drivers than with traditional IC engine cars.

[Bmblbzzz]

I notice that in general all new / newer cars, regardless of engine type, are quieter, quicker and bigger than used to be the norm. To me as a pedestrian - and maybe as a cyclist too - those changes are proving hazardous.

Yes.

[Nearholmer]

Having nearly walked out in front of a taxi yesterday, I would agree!

We live in a very quiet street, and I leave my car on the opposite side, in a lay-by, often not using it for days on end, and am in the habit of wandering over to it to collect things that I’ve left in it. Possibly without always looking very carefully before I wander across.

EV taxi was utterly silent. My bike probably makes more sound.